Why the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy Failed

Why did the Star Wars sequel trilogy fail to deliver a consistent story? In this episode of CC & NJ Guy, Tom, Keny, and Lou break down The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker to determine what went wrong with Star Wars Episodes VII, VIII, and IX—and whether the trilogy deserves all the criticism it receives.

The sequel trilogy introduced memorable characters, spectacular visuals, strong performances, and several fascinating ideas. Rey, Finn, Poe Dameron, Kylo Ren, BB-8, and Supreme Leader Snoke all appeared to have enormous potential. However, the direction of the story changed dramatically from one movie to the next, leaving major mysteries unresolved, important characters underdeveloped, and fans divided over the future of Star Wars.

The conversation begins with The Force Awakens and the excitement surrounding the return of Han Solo, Leia Organa, and Luke Skywalker. The movie successfully introduced a new generation of characters, but it also closely followed the structure of A New Hope. Starkiller Base resembled another version of the Death Star, the First Order rose to power without much explanation, and the New Republic disappeared before audiences understood what was at stake.

The guys discuss the strengths of Kylo Ren’s introduction, including the unforgettable moment when he freezes a blaster bolt in midair. They also examine his complicated relationship with Han Solo, his struggle between the light and dark sides of the Force, and how his journey compares with Anakin Skywalker’s transformation into Darth Vader.

The discussion then turns to The Last Jedi and its controversial treatment of Luke Skywalker. After years of waiting to see Luke return as a powerful Jedi Master, audiences instead found him isolated, disillusioned, and unwilling to help the Resistance. Was Luke throwing away his lightsaber a bold storytelling decision, or did it undermine the ending of The Force Awakens?

Tom, Keny, and Lou debate Luke’s failure with Ben Solo, his decision to abandon the Jedi Order, and his final confrontation with Kylo Ren. They also discuss Luke’s Force projection, Leia surviving in space, the visually impressive throne room battle, the sudden death of Supreme Leader Snoke, and the decision to reveal that Rey’s parents were seemingly unimportant.

One of the trilogy’s biggest missed opportunities may have been Finn. His story begins with an incredible premise: a stormtrooper breaks free from the First Order, rejects his conditioning, helps the Resistance, and fights Kylo Ren with a lightsaber. The movies repeatedly suggest that Finn may be Force-sensitive, but his potential as a future Jedi is never fully explored.

The Rise of Skywalker brings the trilogy’s conflicting creative direction to its breaking point. The Force Awakens establishes mysteries, The Last Jedi removes or changes many of them, and The Rise of Skywalker attempts to rebuild the story during the final chapter.

That leads to the return of Emperor Palpatine, Rey’s connection to the Palpatine bloodline, the hidden Sith fleet on Exegol, and the infamous explanation: “Somehow, Palpatine returned.”

Could Palpatine’s return have worked if it had been established earlier? Did the cloning storyline make sense? Where did the Final Order get the people, money, ships, and resources required to construct an enormous secret fleet? And did giving every Star Destroyer planet-destroying technology make the final threat more exciting—or simply more ridiculous?

Despite these problems, the sequel trilogy still contains moments worth celebrating. Rey and Kylo Ren’s Force dyad introduces new possibilities for the Force. Their ability to communicate and transfer physical objects across space creates some of the trilogy’s most inventive scenes. The Death Star wreckage duel is visually impressive, Ben Solo’s redemption reveals the person he might have been before becoming Kylo Ren, and Han Solo’s return as an emotional memory gives Ben’s story a powerful sense of closure.

The guys also discuss Carrie Fisher’s final appearance as Leia Organa, John Williams’ music, the trilogy’s impressive visual effects, and whether future Star Wars movies and series could eventually improve the sequel era.

The Clone Wars, Rebels, The Bad Batch, Ahsoka, and other projects helped provide additional context for the prequel era. Could future stories about the First Order, Palpatine’s cloning experiments, Exegol, Luke’s Jedi academy, Finn’s Force sensitivity, and Rey rebuilding the Jedi Order do the same thing for the sequel trilogy?

In this episode:

• Why The Force Awakens created genuine excitement
• The return of Han Solo, Leia Organa, and Luke Skywalker
• Rey’s origin, Force abilities, and Palpatine connection
• Finn’s unfinished journey from stormtrooper to potential Jedi
• Kylo Ren’s conflict between the light and dark sides
• Kylo Ren compared with Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader
• Han Solo’s death and Ben Solo’s redemption
• Luke Skywalker’s exile and controversial transformation
• The Last Jedi lightsaber toss
• Luke’s Force projection and final confrontation
• Supreme Leader Snoke and the Knights of Ren
• J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson’s conflicting creative choices
• Emperor Palpatine’s unexplained return
• Palpatine’s cloning plan and the Sith fleet on Exegol
• Rey and Kylo Ren’s Force dyad
• Carrie Fisher’s final storyline as Leia Organa
• Whether future Star Wars stories can repair the sequel era
• What Rey rebuilding the Jedi Order could look like

Ultimately, the sequel trilogy may not have failed because it lacked talent, interesting characters, or ambitious ideas. Its greatest problem may have been the absence of one clear creative vision connecting all three movies.

Were The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker genuinely bad movies—or were they entertaining Star Wars adventures trapped inside a trilogy that nobody properly planned?

After listening, tell CC & NJ Guy the one decision you would change: Luke’s story, Finn becoming a Jedi, Rey’s identity, Snoke’s death, or Palpatine’s return.

Follow CC & NJ Guy for more conversational deep dives into Star Wars, movies, pop culture, paranormal mysteries, conspiracy theories, and the far-out questions that keep us talking long after the credits roll.

SPOILER WARNING: This episode contains major spoilers for The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, The Rise of Skywalker, and related Star Wars movies and television series.

Hosted by: Cottman, Crawford & The Jersey Guy
Contact us: CCandNJGuy@gmail.com
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Transcript

Rewatching The Sequel Trilogy

Lou 0:00

Somehow we re-watched the entire Star Wars trilogy sequel. Uh that's not enough explanation. The sequel trilogy return. Apparently, nobody planned that part.

Keny 0:11

Live from Problem Studios.

Lou 0:18

What's good, fellas? That was good though. Let's go. That was easy. That worked. That worked.

Keny 0:22

I goofed it up.

Tom 0:23

No, it wasn't. So we are back with Star Wars. And uh we're gonna talk about the sequel trilogy, the highly controversial sequel trilogy. Right.

Lou 0:34

Yes. So right, so what do we say first? So people always go and they say, oh, it didn't make sense, it didn't belong, it was its own separate thing. It basically was because it's supposed to be moving on from the last three. Correct, correct. Right? So it was it's seven, eight, and nine. But it had a small tie to it somehow, or right, but it was supposed to be like the the the next part because it's after Luke, you know what I'm saying? Right. After, you know, Odhan and all that other stuff, that now it was supposed to start a whole new thing. So go ahead, Tom.

Tom 1:05

So what did each one of us think that the Force Awaken was originally when it came out? How do you guys feel about it when it first came out?

Lou 1:11

So when it first came out, I thought it was gonna be like a return of the Jedi as a whole. That's where, like, you know, Luke was gonna come back and like, you know, float into this, you know, float back in and whatnot. Once they found him, they, you know, they got the map, they found him, and you know, uh, you know, he's gonna be like the savior. Yeah, yeah, okay, right. The new savior.

Tom 1:32

We all we all assumed that he was gonna be the savior. Right. He was gonna come in, they was gonna fuck shit up. Right.

Lou 1:37

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I thought she was like, Ren was gonna go over, find, bring back, you know what I'm saying? And that he was gonna be the support. You know what I mean? And you know, she was gonna be able to just rock.

Tom 1:49

And were we excited about the trilogy? Yes. I was this back.

Keny 1:54

When I saw the first one, right, I liked. I liked the whole thing. That's my favorite out of the out of the sequel trilogy, that's my favorite one. Right. And then I'm like, oh man, so with such and such. Right. And then they get to the second one, and I'm like, I didn't like the movie the way it started.

Lou 2:11

Right, because it's it it it wasn't to me, it wasn't the Star Wars that not so much what Star Wars was, it

Force Awakens Hopes And Assumptions

Lou 2:20

just didn't seem like it worked well with the other, like it just it it made it right. Well, don't forget, Luke Skywalker was out. Right. And that's I think what the turnoff was.

Tom 2:28

And did our opinion change after The Last Jedi, the second movie? No. Mine did. Really? Yeah, the second he threw that uh the the lightsaber over his head, I was like, what the fuck is going on here?

Keny 2:41

Especially because you and I were talking about it recently. Right. When when R2D2 woke up and then they found the other part of the puzzle for where he was at. Right, right, right, right. Right. Then you're like, oh shit, they figured out where he is, so now they're gonna get back. And that must have been left there for a reason. Yeah. Hello? Right. Then she did stand, he goes, Yeah, fuck you, I'm throwing a settle on it. That doesn't make any sense.

Lou 3:05

Right. And that's why I think that there was so much beef with the movie because he was so he didn't fucking talk. You know what I'm saying? It was like there was no lines. He wasn't expecting. Oh, in the first movie. The first one. They just stare at him and then it's like whatever. You know what I mean? Like there was nothing.

Tom 3:19

Something big to happen. Right. And then the next one he was just I think the handoff was terrible. Yeah, or it was the handoff. Yeah. It was like uh he wasn't talking, so you're expecting something big to happen, and just throws it over his head. He's like, Yeah, what's the point? The tone just composed. I was like, right there. Where did you find this? The issue was is that they had too many hands in the pot. Right. That's what it that's I think the the crux of the issue with the sequel trilogy, too many hands in the pot. I believe it. So too many chefs in the kitchen, baby. Anyway, so so the next so this is just right questions before we start breaking it down. So what did you guys so after the third movie, how did you guys feel it after the end of the third movie? I wasn't happy with it at all. Yeah, I I did and I would like you said I wasn't excited.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

I didn't realize that it could actually somehow Palpatine has returned. Yeah, right. And that's shitty writing.

Lou 4:11

Palpatine didn't fucking he didn't return. There's no fucking way because I don't know. Well, now again, we have looked through.

Keny 4:19

I have. He was right. He was dead.

Lou 4:21

Right. So like for me, I'm like, you know, we've had the conversation where I said, you know, Windu's still alive. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because he fell out of the window. He lost a hand in the end. Right, yeah. But you could see that he that that Windu could have survived. You can't see how it was that uh Papa Teen survived. Right. You know what I mean? Like that's just two fucking parts.

Keny 4:42

The Jedi and they can they can flip they can almost like bounce off the right. Yeah, like he would have bounced up right and he'd have been.

Lou 4:49

Yeah, this dude landed in the fucking in the in the in the um car that was going past by the shit.

Keny 4:55

Yeah, little.

Tom 4:56

And the question is, can a movie be entertaining and badly planned? I say yes, the movies are entertaining. I don't fair enough. I won't take that away from them. No, they are. They are definitely entertaining to watch. I don't think the sequels fail because they had no good idea. I think they fail because they had too many interesting ideas and never given like structure and time and direction. Right. Fair enough. They think they're not. That is the the the biggest issue of the movie. There's a lot of handoffs, a lot of different directors. Like I think JJ Abrams did the first one, but they didn't do the second one, which he should have. Yeah, did all of them. Yes. If you're gonna, if they're gonna do that, they should have said, all right, this person's gonna do the entire trilogy. And you have to.

Lou 5:43

It's like a fucking DC film.

Keny 5:45

I guarantee you that story would not have been the way it came out now. Right. No way. There's no fucking way. I don't believe that. Because it was so corny to just see that. It was like uh Yeah, yeah.

Lou 5:54

Like I said, this reminds me of DC movies, you know, of course. Right, because they always change the movies. Yeah, they change the

The Last Jedi Lightsaber Moment

Lou 6:00

director, the flow of it, the vibe of the whole movie. It's like, oh come on, bro.

Tom 6:04

The movie did have a lot, especially when you watch The Force Awakens. The movie did have a lot going for it. First of all, you get to see uh a rebel story. You know, you got Po, Poe Damr Tamran. Damron or Tamrin? Yeah. I'm I'm probably Bosh messing up the name. But he is uh like an elite pilot. Right. And then you have um Finn, a defector, a stormtrooper defec. We've never seen that before in Star Wars.

Lou 6:30

That was a I thought that was interesting though because we never saw that before in Star Wars. Because that was the switch up of the clones and stuff, you know what I mean? Like they were getting ready to clones and things are just starting to change up. So that makes sense.

Tom 6:44

Uh uh turning to the dark side, right? You know, uh Kylo Wren or Ben Kenobi is his actual name. Right. Um, you know, the the New Republic uh recognizing that there's this new fascist threat, the new order. You got the star killer base, which was another interesting thing, you know, because because you had the Death Star, which was able to destroy planets, and now you had the Star Killer base, which used the power of the sun to destroy entire star systems. Yes. Right. So which made the Death Star look like a like a fucking musician.

Lou 7:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I need that shirt. I need that shirt. Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, you know what I mean?

Tom 7:20

So I think I think the movie had a lot going for it, but again, it was the handoff between different the different movies. Right. Definitely. Absolutely. That is that is this is gonna be the theme of this episode. Yeah, you know, where they where the the writing just like fill up. I did have a problem with him killing Honda. I thought that I did that just didn't make sense. I think for dramatics it was good, and I don't think I I honestly I don't think Harrison Ford wanted to do more than one. Yeah, right. Yeah, probably.

Keny 7:57

You know, it didn't, you know, but it just seemed weird to me because of the whole way the movie was going. Yeah.

Lou 8:01

Well, I mean, I mean if we go back like for like with Han, I don't think he should have killed Han either. You're probably right, you know, Han didn't want to, you know, um Harrison Ford probably didn't want to do anymore. But I think that's a good thing.

Keny 8:11

Have him die over the movie a different way. Because here's the shit.

Lou 8:14

Well, here's the shit. Kylo Wren was doing it because he thought and felt and that it's supposed to be you have to kill that person in your life and you know the love or whatever to, you know, to to embrace the dark side. But he wasn't dark. Again, he was another one, just like like uh Vader, like Anakin, right, that if Mace Windu or of the like would have raised him or you know, helped him out with his Jedi power, he wouldn't have been on the dark side. There was too, he was too fucking nice. Like he like, yes, he fought the dark side and how it was that it was that he was really trying to be dark, you know?

Keny 8:50

Right, yeah. He was trying to me, it looked like you were saying just saying, I was gonna say it earlier, that he was trying to be dark. Right, as it's coming natural, he was pushing it.

Tom 8:58

So that's the thing that I always say is the difference between Kylo Wren and Anakin Skywalker, or I could say Anakin Skywalker, right? Is that like Anakin Skywalker was trying to be good, but he naturally fell to the dark side. Right, right. Yes. As where Kylo Wren was forcing himself to be dark dark. Yeah. Oh, are you gonna help me? And they, you know, he kills his father and pushed him over. It's like he forced it to be dark. It's like, I gotta be dark, I gotta be dark, I gotta do some dark shit. Yeah, as where like Anakin's like, I'm trying not to do dark shit, but I'm gonna do dark shit.

Lou 9:33

Yeah, he gotta help because I'm trying to, but he had like he was doing the dark shit. Anakin was doing it because of something that he thought that was going to be that he was gonna be.

Keny 9:41

I mean that dark-seated shit, you know, about Trump and a lot of manipulation as well from uh what's his face?

Lou 9:48

Yeah, yeah. Kylo, there was nothing wrong with that motherfucker. No, like he had a good life, yeah. He had a really good fucking life, bro. He was chilling, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And then for all that to fight and do all that dumb shit to come to the door, you know, to come to the light. Come to the light anyway. Yeah, yeah.

Keny 10:07

Which is like really weird to me.

Lou 10:08

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Keny 10:09

But it was just so the writing, it was just like a pinball machine was natural.

Lou 10:14

Exactly. Like he was he just needed a spanking.

Tom 10:16

But uh, you know, uh, I think I did like BB8 the character. I thought that was different. And he wasn't an another, he wasn't like a replacement for R2.

Lou 10:24

R2, right, he wasn't.

Tom 10:25

He was his own kind of deal. And I thought it was a cool premises where like

Force Awakens Strengths And Fresh Ideas

Tom 10:30

he was a rolling ball with like a magnetic top. I thought that was kind of cool that, you know, because I I know that they're trying to progress things with technology and the story to show that you know, technology changes. But it's funny though, because the gram skin uh grand scheme of Star Wars is like the um high-tech civilization has been around for like 25,000 years. Right. Can you imagine like living in a high-tech society for 25,000 years? I know that they're trying to advance things, but I don't think I think at a certain point like a stagnate technology. But that's just my personal opinion. Right. Well, I mean, yeah.

Keny 11:05

No, I would think it would continue to grow.

Lou 11:08

Yeah, but like but to what? You know what I mean?

Keny 11:10

Because higher technology We never thought of the stuff that's coming out now in reality, and we're like, holy shit, I can't believe they can do that now.

Lou 11:16

Well, but even like we, you know, like we'll you know, skip for that quickie for a sec to like even Star Trek. You know what I mean? Yeah, Star Wars Star Trek, they get to which we're getting into next. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's gonna be next year. But like when the you can't do anything more, you know, other than that everybody's gonna freaking, you know, is like No, you could just make the machine better. Yeah, that's right.

Keny 11:34

You could always make the machine better. And then enhance it in some way that seemed like anything like an automobile or whatever.

Lou 11:39

Definitely so they would progress absolutely to better. But I don't think like society as a whole like that doesn't be like fucking member.

Keny 11:45

You would just gradually fall into it because you learn it that way, like we did.

Lou 11:49

Right, right, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom 11:51

I I I in the first movie I did like Ray's character. I thought it was interesting, you know, a scavenger, you know, in a desert planet where like there's I don't there must have been they never really explained, but I I I'm assuming there was like a big war where the Empire lost, maybe you know, towards the end when they were breaking apart after Palpantine died, because there's all these like star destroyers that are just like like these like dead star destroyers, and she scavenges and they basically just for food where she was like one like a bread, one quarter portion.

Lou 12:26

Yeah, yeah, you know, like yeah, I forgot about sickhead.

Tom 12:30

Anyway, yeah, but uh and I the one thing I did like in the movie I thought was a good cinematics was at the end when uh Ray and um Kylo Wren are fighting in that snowy forest. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was cool. Just like fucking hitting the trees, lightsabers figuring it out. Cool, yeah, yeah. She was figuring it out. That was cool, yeah. And you know, a lot of people do criticize, they go, Oh, the lightsaber duels weren't as good as the the the the prequels. It's like the thing I I think people fail to understand is is they did work well with continuity. In the prequels, you have people who were trained under the Jedi Order for exact the whole entire life. They're like experts in in lightsaber combat. They were brought up as children during lightsaber combat. So of course they're gonna be amazing. Of course, the choreography is fucking amazing in the prequels. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

But in the sequel trilogy, there's no Jedi Order, there's not learning shit on their own. So there's really no you know, lightsaber combat skills.

Keny 13:28

Doesn't Leia though train her though? No. In the third one? No, Leia didn't train her. Yeah, remember when she's running around and she's training.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Oh, yeah, that's right.

Tom 13:35

She did they did do like a whole like little trading. Oh, the third one? Yeah. With with uh with Ray, yeah, and and and is it the third or second one? It might have been maybe.

Lou 13:43

Well, you know, it was that I forgot about that part, like totally forgot about that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even still, it's like, you know, it it's 'cause Leia technically trained as well, right?

Keny 13:50

Right, but when she saw something or something happened to her, and she was like, oh, I can't do this.

Lou 13:57

Yeah, she trained a little bit. Like well, she got she got blown out of the fucking spaceship, held her breath kind of thing.

Keny 14:01

And then that was one of the things I was talking about earlier about that to me, that was a little too much for me. Yeah. I mean that's it was just it didn't make sense to me. How could she do that?

Lou 14:10

Well, but because that was her using the force. And then we're looking at so let's look at it like this. Think about it like this. Here it is where Luke has gone and he has trained and you know, meditated and done all that he can, has been able to do with what he knew and how he learned from you know what was left of Jedi, Yoda. You know what I'm saying? Him practicing, he knows that, you know, I will live forever, you know, and with the force and that kind of shit. And now here it is where Leia is learning the same thing. Like she's actually meditating and you know, trying part of new shit and you know, trying to move things across. I think that's why, like for me, I don't find that kind of far-fetched. I kind of get it. So she was using the force in her own way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. That's exactly how she survived, using the force.

Keny 14:58

Well, that's kind of like in Rogue One, right? Sorry. Right. Where the uh the blind man was doing the same thing. Yeah, right. He was tapping into the force. Right.

Lou 15:09

He was able to. But he didn't have enough metacloriens in his system for you know to be Jedi. But he still was able to do and use what he thought, what he felt, how he was.

Keny 15:20

It worked.

Lou 15:21

Yeah.

Keny 15:21

So anybody could do it.

Lou 15:23

Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I just think that for this one, like with with Kylo Ren, he was just trying too fucking hard.

Keny 15:32

Yeah, I think so too. I think I agree. I totally agree with you. I was like, oh, it's the whole anger thing. And then he's punching his wound. Yeah. I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm not getting this. Yeah. Why is he so pissed off at the world? Like he came from two really good parents when you think about that necessarily doesn't, and even in real life, it doesn't go right either. Even when people think, and then the kid winds up going in a totally different direction. You never see it coming. So go ahead.

Tom 15:59

So I think where the movie does struggle is that it does follow New Hope a little too well, too closely. Starkiller Base is basically another Death Star, just a stronger Death Star. Right. Even though it's cool, as I mentioned before, it is kind of a repeat. The New Republic is destroyed before people can even understand what the New Republic is. They really don't really nail that down. Right, right. I I but it is kind of hard in a movie to do that, but I think they could have done a little bit better job of the setup. The same thing with like the forced the first orders rise, they don't really explain that well either. Right. It's just like they're there. Right. You know what I mean? Like no one explains anything, they're just there. And you know, Ray's power uh level raises questions, the trilogy never answers consistently. You know what I mean? So, and and then Luke is just like a cliffhanger. And we mentioned that before we started. Right. You know, he's just like, it's just like they just leave it like it's so weird the way they end it, like no words.

Keny 17:00

It's just like he disappears like both rewanded. Yeah, but he didn't even die. No, well, well, you know what I'm saying?

Lou 17:08

Like, well, I mean, like, you know what I mean? Like it wasn't like it was just a part of that.

Tom 17:11

I'm talking about the first thing, and it's just like and the sucked that fucking.

Keny 17:17

I didn't mind that part so much because then I mean I thought, oh wow, what's he gonna do when we go back? And they're gonna hopefully start from that point.

Lou 17:24

You'll see, you know. But for me, it should have been earlier in the movie and him have some words, like, you know, I think they made Luke too much of a of a like, I don't want to say loner, I guess. Well, I I guess so, yeah, you know, too much of a pump.

Keny 17:40

I mean he was still good in the movie. He did a great job in the movie. Right. You know what I mean? I thought that, you know.

Tom 17:45

And and one of the other things too is like I agree with you. So so when we go on to the next movie, right? The the last is it the last Jedi? The last Jedi is the second movie, right? So they never really explain who Ray's parents are. Right, by the way. But it's what's his name, isn't it? Um Yeah, but it's not explained it's not really explained fully. They don't fully explain how Luke disappears. Right. You know, like I mean at towards the end, you know, when when like he used too much force. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Keny 18:17

I think he was quoted saying that he overdosed on the force or something. Yeah. That's weird.

Tom 18:22

That's that's weird, I think. Right. Um, they also don't explain who Snoke is. You don't really they kind of they show it in the third movie, but they really don't when you see like the clones. Right, right, right. Um So I think that's another and I think that might be attributed to a pro improper handoffs of different directors. Yes. Again, this is the this is the crux of the issue with the sequels. Right. Too many hands in the fucking pot. Yes. Keep it consistent with one director, one or two producers. That's it. And I hope they because there's talks about them continuing the story after Rise of Skywalker. And I hope they learn their lesson and keep it one creative fucking direction. Right. Because that is the problem, right? Keep it tight.

Keny 19:14

Well, I don't know what they're doing with the other series on like on Disney, right? So each one of those

Plot Holes And Missing Explanations

Keny 19:20

and it sticks within its same story. You know it's doing stuff.

Lou 19:24

So I think that's exactly what they should be doing. So like digging in certain animations, right? You'll have like a guest, uh, and even some of the DC TV shows, they had guest directors, but they stayed with that same story. Right. You know what I'm saying? They stayed with that same story. Yeah, just a little bit of something, but it was still the same story. Right. They followed the comic book. Right. You know what I'm saying? Why the fuck can't they do that with Star Wars? Right. I I don't understand that shit.

Keny 19:53

Was there another another series that came out afterwards?

Lou 19:56

Well, yeah, there's a whole shitload of books and comics and stuff of Star Wars. Like Star Wars could have its own library.

Keny 20:01

So after the the the first six. Right. Yeah. It just continues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lou 20:06

There's a whole bunch of things that we don't see, but that's where a lot of the animated the animated series come from. Series of series, animated series C. Animated series. That's where the animated series came from. A lot of them, you know, like they said, the the um the Clone Wars, um, Bad Bads, Ahsoka's, the cartoon, um, the rebels. Like a lot of that stuff came from the in-between, the conversation. Yeah, like you said, all those things came from the books, the stories, you know, the comics and all that other. That's all the in-between stuff. Right. And that's what I like. And that's what, but that's what they needed to do with these. Maybe they'll do it.

Keny 20:40

Maybe they'll do it on. Well, it was Disney that put the movies out, right? Yeah. I was thinking maybe they'll fix it by going doing it in the series of each one of those. Well, right, but they haven't done it with these three.

Lou 20:52

But they haven't done it with these three like that. You know what I mean?

Keny 20:55

We're still getting Anakin was with Ahsoka, right? I mean, right, but that's the prequel. Like that's the between worlds kind of thing, right?

Lou 21:03

What was that called? Right, but that was her getting like her becoming the master. Like this is the end of her, like, this is her journey and all that other stuff, her meditation that she saw Anakin and that's what made her a master. You know what I mean? That was a little bit different. With these, like I said, with these three, these last three episodes, there's they're they're so far off from each other. Yeah. You know what I mean? That is like it would take three series between each one to keep the first one, right?

Keny 21:31

And start over. So change two and change three.

Tom 21:36

So with the last Jedi, so what did it what did it get right? I think uh the cinematography was probably the best.

Lou 21:44

You didn't even go with the story if they were they recorded it really lovely.

Tom 21:48

The special effects were good too. They did an amazing job with the cinematography. Right.

Lou 21:54

So yes, it was beautiful.

Tom 21:55

I'm not gonna say it was pretty. Purdy. Got pretty mouth. Yeah. One of the things I did like in that movie too was the uh the throne room uh fight sequence where they actually get to see the Imperial Guards fight. Yeah. Because they were always just standing there standing there. And then you get to see like, holy shit, these guys know how to get down. And if you actually follow the story uh with them, of you go into like if you deep dive into like their training, they have like this intense training where like they they there's like a planet they go to and they they they get selected for this training and they go through like this like Spartan type fucking crazy fucking training. Yep. To only just stand there and be ready in case some shit happens. Yeah, right, right. And like it's it's cra the the kind of training they go through is pretty intense. What do they look like? Those are the ones with the red. I know that, but what do they look like without that stuff?

SPEAKER_01 22:47

I mean, they're they're humans.

Lou 22:48

Humanoids are humanoids. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because they look like um they look almost like the uh the Sith. What planet would they went with the witches? They look almost like that, like uh Darthyrian? Yes, yeah, they look still with something more like that. If I'm so yeah. Okay, but and but still with even with that, that's a story that you get a piece of during like Darthmall, like the old ones, you know, when they were showing with Darthmore.

Keny 23:11

But now they got the new series.

Lou 23:12

Now they have the new series, yeah. I still have finished it. Yeah, it's like I got like another series. I gotta watch it to go, you're right. I got like another episode to go. But still, it's just I I just wish that they would they did I love Star Wars, man. I really love Star Wars. And I just wish that with these last three there would have been more connection. You know what I mean?

Keny 23:31

And I said earlier that they felt like they were rushed.

Lou 23:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I I agree. It felt like it was rushed.

Tom 23:37

And I do think though, uh Luke projecting himself instead of just slaughtering the Jedi is like such a I mean, instead of slaughtering the first order, right, is probably one of the most like Jedi things you could do.

Lou 23:50

Oh, yeah. But I think they did get that right. They got that right. But then it should have been like him being like, right, him projecting. But not that it kills him. That was the real thing. Right. That's what I'm saying. It shouldn't have done because he by now should have been like a supermaster. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like he uses force projection, but it doesn't kill him.

Tom 24:08

That's the thing that I I think that kind of was weak. Right. But again, you know, uh, it's funny. Writing sometimes has a lot to do with what happens behind the scenes. Wait, wait. Like maybe he didn't want to do a third movie. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Lou 24:21

We're gonna do the throwback for a second. Okay, let's go. Remember, if you remember, and um when Luke and I believe it was Return of the Jedi, when, or it might have been Empire, but anyways, but when he turned around and he went to go um see Yoda, Yoda had said that the more he uses the force, and how like how like when he was picking up the um the X-Wing Fighter out of the swamp, that him using that much of the force takes his life energy. Yeah. So he says, you know, that's when that's why you turn around and you see that when he turned around, he like, and he lifts it up and he places it down, he's like, lay down, I must. Well, he was old too. So because of two, now we look at all of the in-between movies. So now we see when Yoda was younger and he's like, Znk, you know what I mean? And now he's fighting. He throws his cloak off, and now he's fighting. What's his face? And he's jumping all over the place, and he's using the force, and he's like, like he's doing all that shit. So it's all the fights that we didn't see that Yoda had. So that then him being a thousand years old is more like he's 1500, 2,000 years old.

Keny 25:28

Maybe.

Lou 25:28

You get what I'm saying? Yeah. So that then here it is where he was a special of a special race that was able to, you know, to handle the force as such, but then you have Luke, who's a regular human, and he may not be able, his life, so we know we're gonna live to be a hundred years old.

Keny 25:47

So his his body, his life force couldn't handle projecting well in the original series, Obi-Wan wasn't as strong as he was when he fought in the original Star Wars, the first one. Right. When he fit when he's like, you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than that. Right.

Lou 26:03

Because that was what they said because they're gonna go, you know, and be one with the forces.

Keny 26:06

But then you saw the you saw the actual remake. Someone did a short and said, now that they know how to do the lightsaber fights and all that, what Obi-Wan and Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You go at it like super crazy, throwing shit at each other, like we were having a battle. Yeah, exactly.

Tom 26:23

So do you think Luke's failure with Ben or Kylo Ren, if you want to say we'll say Ben Kenobi. Not Ben Kenobi, um Ben Solo. Yeah. So do you think that's uh believable?

Keny 26:39

I don't know. I don't know. Well, why not? I don't know. I just felt like that was just you know made up too. So my thing is I I mean it was cause made up, but but I mean Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom 26:50

I believe Luke can become become disillusioned. I believe he did fail Ben. I believe that he became ashamed. What I struggle with is the most important transformation in Luke's entire adult life happened off screen and we only received fragments of it. Right, right, right, right, right. It's like really see I feel like they they could have showed a lot more detail in what happened. Kind of what he did and what he went through and everything.

Lou 27:14

Yeah, and that's why exactly. Because once he left, once he disappeared, because was it that what was it that he came back for? I I'm having a brain fart, so I apologize. He had come back for something. When he when then yeah, because wasn't he um was it in the Mandalorian or whatever? Yeah, they showed him the temple, yeah, right, starting to build it and all the stuff that he went through. Oh, because then even still with that, where's Grogu?

unknown 27:39

Right.

Lou 27:39

You know what I'm saying?

Keny 27:40

Now he's here, but I mean, like, you know and he met him. Yeah, they were actually met one another after the fact.

Lou 27:45

Yeah, because well, because Luke went and picked him up, you know, helped him out, took care of him, whatever, trained him a little bit, you know, after Ahsoka. So it's like, you know, where that would be cool to see. But now we have to have a backstory. Do we go backwards with the movie making? Or do again, like I said before, get the animated series and put them in between to see, you know, what Luke was really doing, you know, what when he trained too much. Do a good thing.

Tom 28:10

They rushed so many, they rushed so many things. Yeah, they did. Like, like, I feel like we didn't even get to like learn much about Snoke. It's just like he was killed, like you saw this big guy in the holograms, and you finally see him, and then I killed him. I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, what the fuck was that? You know, and and also the other thing too is the Knights of Ren. Like, they don't ghouls. They're just like, well, that was like the line of ghouls.

Lou 28:34

Like, what the fuck does that supposed to mean? Yeah, they're like, what the fuck? Ghoul what? No ghouls. You know what I mean? Like ghoulows, what's the fuck?

Tom 28:40

Like, okay, so like he has like a posse, like, what's going on here? Like they don't really explain the knights of Ren much. Right. Like what what what the fuck is that? Like they don't really explain it much.

Lou 28:50

Yeah, there was just too much, like I said, there were so many, but then uh so was that done on purpose so that this way they could expand, you know, on on you know, having the like I said, the animated series and the you know the the the one-off shows, you know, on in between to show those things? Yeah, right, right. But then they didn't even make those. So that then now you have these three movies, right? They never made anything to sit in between. You know, there was no, you know, quote unquote like an and or there was no you know, rebels, there was no bad batch, you know, that kind of shit in between.

Keny 29:21

But doesn't she come up at the end of the movie with her own lightsaber, right? It's a different design. You see a light.

Lou 29:28

Right, but it was just a handle. Where did she even get the crystal from? Does she take it off?

Keny 29:32

It wasn't even like a crystal.

Lou 29:33

Yeah, it was a white one, right, because she was on some other shit. But that but I'm trying to remember she but she had the crystal.

Tom 29:38

The white uh lightsabers are actually, if you if you Yeah, I forgot what they fooled. So like they explained that I don't know if they explained that Ahsoka, or I I I looked it up. Right, right. Because Ahsoka, she has a white lightsaber too. So it's apparently white lightsabers are purified crystals that were once um bled. Right. So like you take a Sith kyber crystal, which is you know, makes turns the lightsaber red, and then it's purified, I don't know how, through you know, putting positive energy or light energy into it, and then it turns white.

Lou 30:07

I'm trying to remember whose lightsaber she had. Did she have Kylo Rens? It was uh what's his name? No, but she had because she had did she have two with her?

Keny 30:17

No, she had one that looked like that she made herself. It was a wider, it was it was a different handle, and you see her when she turned it on, and then her name was and she said Skywalker.

Lou 30:28

Yeah, right, right, right, right. Yeah. I'm just trying to remember where she got that other one from. Like if she got the where she got the crystal, because she could change the colour. Maybe it was Tyler's.

Keny 30:36

Right, maybe it was his and she did that to the story if she took his actual.

Lou 30:41

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, because I'm having a brain for I can't remember where she got it from. I'd be lying if I said yeah, that's actually a good thought. I never even thought of that. Well, again, still, it's another story. Right. You know what I mean? That they that that that was left unaction.

Keny 30:53

I say go back to one and start over.

Lou 30:55

Yeah.

Keny 30:56

Do two or three over. Yeah. The way it should have been done. Yeah. Well, seven and eight. I mean, you know what I mean. Seven, eight, nine. Yeah. I mean of the series two and I meant, not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. Okay. My bad. I should say seven, eight, nine, you're right.

Lou 31:08

But it's just, it's just, it's just wild, bro. I don't understand what they're thinking when they when they do these. Because, you know, geeks like us, we're like, follow the fucking story, man. You know what I mean? Like, this is what was said. Why didn't they have this? And people disagree with us, but when they're made like that, everybody's fucking happy. When it's made like boom, boom, boom, coming out from, you know, comic books or the or or the paperback. You know what I mean? The way it was. The way that it should be. You know, people are like, oh yeah, well, you know, I could have said this, but we're not gonna be able to do that.

Keny 31:37

Yeah, they might change a couple things, but it'll be Yeah, but it was

Director Tug Of War Problem

Keny 31:40

it was that, man.

Lou 31:41

You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great. It's it's it's great when they follow it. It sucks when they fucking don't. Right. You know, then you get aggravated and you sit in there and I'm jumping up in the theater.

Keny 31:51

No, like what the fuck? Son of a bitch.

Tom 31:55

Give me a free popcorn. So yeah, the so the next segment I want to talk about is the the director Tug of War.

Lou 32:00

Okay.

Tom 32:01

So like you know, the uh rather than making the you know, conversation about JJ Abrams versus uh Ryan Johnson, uh is that the leadership and trilogy planning uh problem, right? Right. So like you have episode seven, which creates a lot of mysteries, right? Right. Then episode eight comes and it dismantles all the fucking mysteries. Right. And then episode nine comes and it tries to restore and replace them. Yeah. So I think that's that again, it's can you write your handoff? Again, this is this is the biggest problem. If you talk to anybody who says they don't like the sequel trilogy, which is a lot of people, right, the main issue is the writing. Like I don't I don't think anybody argues the cinematics or the special effect. Right, yes, right.

Lou 32:55

Yes, terrible because of all the handoffs. Yep, yeah, and they had good people, good actors.

Tom 33:01

Yeah, no, no, no, no. They did a great job. I absolutely I think all of them did an amazing job acting. It's just a this goes to show you that like you can have great directors, you can have great uh actors, you can have great cinematography, great special effects, but if the writing is shit, yeah. Yep.

Lou 33:26

Yeah, is that Pac-Man? Yeah, Pac-Man, he went. Yeah, exactly. It was it just it sucks, man. Cause I mean, think of how many people how many of us are excited for Star Wars, you know? Like I love Star Wars, you know, and here it is where you get this little shit and it's just like it throws a wrench in it, bro. It just I will can I just say this one thing?

Keny 33:52

Yeah, go ahead, man. Is it Poe the one who defected?

unknown 33:55

Finn.

Keny 33:55

Finn, I'm sorry. Poe is the pilot. Right. Sorry, my bad. I got him first. So Finn, I thought that somehow in the next movie, when he remember when he got hurt, he tried to use the force, right? He was gonna become a freaking Jedi. Right. You know, right. Yes, I really thought that that was gonna happen. He should have been. They should have been, absolutely.

Lou 34:15

They should have made him, they should have let they should have let him be a Jedi. Right, come back as that, you know, like Yes. Well, not even come back. Like, you know, he was he was an untrained Jedi. He was they never checked his metaclorines, you know what I mean? Like they should have, they should have made him a Jedi. He had all of the heart to be a Jedi.

Keny 34:34

Yeah.

Lou 34:34

And that would have been interesting. Yeah, because he was fighting with with with Ray. You know, he not fighting with her, but they were tag teaming against um against Ren. Right. You know what I mean?

Tom 34:43

Yeah, yeah. In the first movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lou 34:45

So then they should have made, you know, they should have been like, you know, you know, was it what movie was that? Uh you have some skill.

Keny 34:50

And then what's her name? It's just she just goes to town.

Lou 34:54

Yeah. And and because she had the force. But they should have they should I think they should have let him. He should have he should have definitely had some. But I'm sorry, guy, you uh No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

So um So you were saying the directors.

Keny 35:06

Yeah. This is you know I think they should have let JJ Abrance just do the whole show. I should have done it. It's too bad that he didn't say, listen, if I'm doing it, I'm doing all of it. Well, no, because he was doing the first one. I don't think he even knew that he wasn't gonna do the next one. I would have said, hey, listen, if I'm gonna do the first one, I want to be for all of the next two. He probably thought he was. You know what I mean? I think Yeah, you gotta secure it though, because they hope stupid shit.

Tom 35:29

Whatever future projects they work on, if they're gonna go anything post Rise of Skywalker, that they learn their lesson and keep continuity. Because that is you know, again, it's it's it's the biggest issue with a sequel trilogy is continuity.

Lou 35:47

So Well, now here's a question for you. Do you think that they would actually go with movies or just make a whole bunch of series?

Tom 35:56

They're gonna do movies. I I think there's talks about them doing it.

Lou 35:59

Right. Everything is all talks because how many times didn't they already say, oh yeah, like there was quote unquote leaks? You know, there's a leak of this happening, there's a leak of that happening, and then it turns out that it was like, yeah, no, no, it doesn't matter what the what what Lucasfilms wanted, you know, we run it now and we're not doing that. You know, we're gonna make this series instead. Right.

Tom 36:19

I think the smartest thing that happened was is that all these TV series, like Dave Falone um making a lot of the stuff, is that um they're trying to do some cleanup with the trilogies. Where in Mandalorian, they're kind of explaining how Grogu is they take his DNA because they're trying to bring Palpatine back, you know, through uh through Grogu's uh DNA, you know, with the Metaclor. That's what they were gonna do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They they kind of explained that. If you watch the Mandalorian, like that was the whole thing where they were trying to the cloning process, they were trying to figure out the cloning by using it. Right. That's what they're trying to get them. Yeah.

Lou 36:56

So spoiler alert, sorry, those of you who didn't see it.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

I didn't realize Mendalore's been out for how many years? I didn't realize that. That's that's interesting.

Tom 37:04

So they're they're trying to do some cleanup work on it, which I I give them credit for because they knew that the sequel trilogy kind of so I I think that is smart because the thing also not to go too off topic, but if you remember um the prequel trilogy, when it came out, it wasn't well received like it is now. In fact, I was reading something recently about um what's her name that played uh Padme. Yes, why is her name in my tongue? Oh my god, I'm so terrible with names. I should know her name after.

Lou 37:38

I see her, uh yeah. But go ahead. Right? Huh? No, um No, Padme was her real name in real life.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Oh my god, I should remember her name. Oh my god, I'm I'm I'm stupid sometimes.

Lou 37:48

You guys don't notice. Yeah, I you know, you don't remember either.

Tom 37:53

But go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. She was saying that it fucked her career up a little bit. And then, you know, someone vouched for her and she got the you know, she did the black swan and everything like that. Right. And um You're talking about Natalie, uh Natalie Portman. Natalie. Oh my fuck.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

I was almost always already there. It aged better, the prequels.

Tom 38:13

It they weren't well received by fans. There was a lot of people who weren't crazy about it. But as time went on, because more content came out, the Clone Wars series came out, Bad Batch, Rebels, Ahsoka, now all of a sudden people started liking the prequels because it added more continuity. Right. So I think there is a good chance that the sequel trilogy some people might start liking it better if more continuity is added to it to cle do some of the cleanup work. So I think the fact that they are doing some cleanup work where they're adding some continuity to the uh sequel trilogy might help. But again, I still think it was poorly executed.

Lou 38:58

But how did it ruin her career? Did she say that?

Tom 39:00

Well, she was worried about it because that it got really bad because the the you know it it wasn't received well. Someone vouched for her and she was able to get more stuff, but she even you know, it was even stated that like, you know, um, because it it just didn't have good reviews, the the the prequel trilogy.

Lou 39:17

That's crazy. That doesn't make any sense because I mean I'm I I hear what you're saying.

Tom 39:20

It just because you were looking at it now, we're going, oh, the fucking prequel trilogy.

Lou 39:23

No, even in Austin, you know what I mean? No, because even back then, you know, Star Wars fans. But I mean, but she was picking moves to me. I don't know. I g I I guess yeah, you don't they don't call you for the movies.

Tom 39:33

We're a little biased because we're Star Wars fans, but I think overall in the grand scheme of things for actors, yeah.

Lou 39:40

Yeah, okay, that makes sense, I guess. Yeah, I you know, I don't know. I didn't I don't know. I I just I I think she's a good you know she's a great actress. Oh, of course, of course. I thought she's a great job.

Tom 39:50

Because even what you said, critics didn't receive it well, but now it is well received. That's the ironic part of it. That's crazy. Performance a good act, yeah.

Keny 39:57

Yes, very good. Great, but but she was very little, she's that's what I'm saying.

Lou 40:01

Like all those things from when she was a kid, like I don't understand why it was it they would say, ah, yeah, you know, it ruined her career. Like, you know, I don't know, that's crazy.

Keny 40:08

No, she was she's been able to do and I she's probably to her own credit, I'm sure, that she didn't allow herself to get boxed into one.

Tom 40:15

Yeah, well, because it was actually a register that kind of vouched for her and she was able to get more stuff. That's wild. But now it's like it's kind of turned around where like the prequels everybody loves it now. Just needed some time to grow on it. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Lou 40:28

But you know what? That's a lot of those movies though. You know what I mean? Because think about it. When when Star Wars first first came out, it was great because it was that, you know, that crazy sci-fi thing. You know what I mean? It was yeah, it was an upgrade from watching, you know, uh Buck Rogers on TV, you know what I'm saying? He was on the the big screen because they hadn't even still they didn't even make um Star Wars uh Star Trek yet. Not the thing into the picture. Right, into the thing.

Keny 40:50

So that was all that came out around the same time. Right.

Lou 40:52

So you had all those movies that all those.

Tom 40:56

We'll get into that when we start the next one. I've heard 10 years from now, we might be singing a different tune about the trilogy, the the sequel of the trilogy.

Keny 41:03

No, yeah, you probably doubt it. What the Star Wars one?

unknown 41:07

Yeah.

Keny 41:07

No, it blossoms. I'm gonna have to.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

I have let go on this one. Yeah, wow from previous episodes. Yes, no, then you don't lose. Good shit. Good shit.

Keny 41:20

I have come to the realization they suck.

Lou 41:23

Well, see, that's the thing. But again, the movies didn't suck. The storyline. There's good parts to it.

Keny 41:30

Yes, absolutely. I'll have to agree with that. Yes, I did enjoy those parts of the movie. Yeah, the show.

Lou 41:34

But overall the story was because it's gonna be in 10 years that the movies

Can TV Shows Fix The Damage

Lou 41:40

would have been better fillers, meaning that for the story, they should have made the side pieces, you know, like they said, the uh the in-between, the animated series or the you know, this the the live action series that are gonna fall in between. Okay, those are the ones that should have been on the forefront, and that trilogy should have been what was the filler in between to give you the backstory. Yeah, I know different timeline.

Tom 42:04

But that would have been cool. Different timeline. So let me just go through some points about the rise of Skywalker. I want to go through some bullet points that I made that uh where it gets gets it right. So um it moves quickly and delivers constant adventure. Right. Right. Rise of Skywalker.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Yes. That was good.

Tom 42:20

Kylo and and and Ray's uh Force Bond, the the you know, the force dyad is visually inventive where they like can like pop in and out of different like like kind of teleport shit, like a pull shit from one side side of space to the other. Yeah, I thought that was that was a cool.

Lou 42:39

I did like that. Right, right. Well now pause one second, sorry. So now that's what they should have done with Luke. You know what I'm saying? That he was able to pop back and forth, not that he had done it where he used it so hard that he didn't use it so much, like he should have been able to go. I don't think they wanted him for the next movie. Yeah, like he shouldn't have, yeah, and that's what the bullshit was. All right, sorry, go ahead, go ahead, yeah.

Tom 42:58

But that was that was the force dyad, you know. Right, right. Um lightsaber transfers through the force is excellent. Yes, yes. Um Carlos redemption scenes are emotionally effective.

Lou 43:09

Yeah, but I think they were fake.

Tom 43:10

I felt like he was, you know. But go ahead. Uh Hans Return works as a memory rather than uh literal force ghost. Okay. That was good because he's not like that Jedi. He's not but but he did come into memory kind of like a like a like a hallucination. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was good. Uh Leia is handled with care despite the limitations caused by Carrie Fisher's death. Right. I think they did that pretty well. Because I I mean the funny thing is, see, I'm I'm I'm s for me, like I'm watching the movie, I'm like, how are they doing this? Because Carrie Fisher died, how are they doing this? And I yeah, I thought they did it, they did a good job despite that she died with the special effects and everything. Yeah. They were able to finish it up.

Lou 43:52

Yeah, yeah. It looked pretty good. Yeah, but then you know what? We'll you know, sidebar real quicky. That's what they did with um Brendan Lee and Bruce. When they died, they used their, you know, like doubles, you know, their lookalikes to finish off the last part of the movie because you know they make the movie all over the place. But go ahead, sorry.

Tom 44:10

I thought the imagery of them battling on the Death Star was fucking wrong. Was it waves coming? I thought that was done exceptionally well. Yeah. I loved that scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think they did that was something they definitely got right. Right. Bensell's brief return shows the charisma and personality he may have had before becoming Kylo. Right. So I thought that was good. Yeah. Of course, you know, the John Williams score was good too. Yeah, right, right, right. You know, the doing the music. And the the movie is very well polished on a technical level. So those are things they definitely did right. And again, uh, you know, before we bash the movie, I like to note that they did do a lot of shit good. And this is the thing I've been we've been saying the entire episode is that they did a lot of good things. It's the writing, the writing, the fucking and too many hands in the in the too many hands in the pot.

Lou 45:07

Yeah.

Tom 45:07

And once let it be. So, of course, uh, this is the bullet points I made for where it struggles. Uh Palpatine's return overwhelming. Yeah, dude. Somehow, Palpatine Returns, I think, is the most shittiest writing I have ever seen in a movie. And I'm very sad to say that it was star.

Lou 45:26

Yeah, I know, right? Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like they I don't even know. But then so now what would they do? I'm sorry to cut you up, but now what would it be that then like so what? Now the fight, the art you know, that that Ray is gonna have is to go and and uh blow up the uh the lab that they're trying to clone him in, because you know where he's gonna go to be cloned.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lou 45:47

You know what I'm saying? Is he gonna go where they did the first clones, where they did all the other clones, you know what I'm saying? Right, right. So it's you know, that that's that's where they're gonna have to go.

Keny 45:55

He's totally dead in this one. I mean, they blow his ass up, don't they? In in the list. Well, no, he didn't blow up. He uh Didn't they fry him with the Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lou 46:02

No, no, no, no. What the fuck?

Keny 46:05

Both of them beat his ass, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, yeah. So he did fry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

But they probably used to do the lightning, and then they realized you know, could they clone again and somehow Palpine has returned. Yeah. Again. Yeah, right, right, right. Hopefully, but again, okay, enough.

Tom 46:20

I mean, first time, could they clone them again? You know what I mean? Like, that's where it kind of makes the story, you know. Hopefully they don't do that. Yeah. Well, let's see. Hopefully they learn their lesson, because that's a famous line that people make fun of is somehow Pelma Teamers has returned. Yeah. No. It should have returned the first time.

Lou 46:38

Yeah.

Tom 46:39

Well, uh, it also D-E-D. Yeah. D-E-D. Finn's force sensitivity is teased, but it's never fully explored. Right. Like what we talked about. He's got like there's something going on with it, but they never really go further into it.

Lou 46:56

Yes.

Tom 46:57

Again, the Knights of Ren finally appear, but barely, you know.

Lou 47:02

That's yeah, because it was short-lived.

Tom 47:04

Hilo loses the final villain position he earned by killing Snoke. Right. Right. You know? The Sliff fleet uh raises logistical questions like how did how do they have he has a giant fleet on Exigol of Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this massive fleet hitting on this planet. That was a good one. Yeah, that that was like to me.

Keny 47:28

I I get it. That maybe they were doing something secretly and they were still trying to build up to something. It's just so massive. It just seems so like super.

Tom 47:35

And they all have Death Star Rays on them. Yeah. Yeah. Every single

Rise Of Skywalker Wins And Woes

Tom 47:40

Star Destroyer is a Death Star Ray.

Lou 47:41

Well, wait, wait, wait. So let's back up a sec. We were just talking about technology moving forward. That's true. So then they could have, should have, had that kind of power.

Keny 47:51

You know, a planet used to blow up other universe.

Tom 47:54

Then you know it requires kyber. And like how much kyber are they? There's only like two planets that they know of that have kyber. One is Ilum. That's the one where all the Jedi go and and where Huyang is and they build their lightsabers. And then the other one was the planet where I think that was the planet where the uh the star case starbase. Right, right, right, right, right. So there's a couple planets that have kyber on them, but like, how much kyber are they fucking mining? You know what I mean?

Lou 48:23

To make all the to make that happen. But then uh how much did they really need to make it happen that then they could just, you know, also.

Tom 48:30

The other thing is too is is is the the Death Star required a massive reactor to power the death the the Death Star Ray. Right.

Lou 48:40

So now they just gotta we just got our Star Destroyers now. You know, but you know what? We went from the freaking, you know, the the I know we went from the giant Zach Morris phone. Yeah, to you know, to that now. I know, I know, I I get it. I I get it, I get it, I get it. I get I I I get it. I hear what you're saying. Yeah. But because we didn't see the fillers, you know what I'm saying? We don't have any fillers. It just jumped from like it almost felt like it jumped like, you know, every 10, 15 years to the next story. Right. You know, and they left so much space to see, you know, why Ren, you know, was the way he was, what was doing that for him, you know, no uh Ray maybe getting there a little bit sooner and being able to to to you know have Luke's tutelage. You know what I'm saying? It's like the other problem. So many directions they could have gone.

Tom 49:31

Yeah, and the other problem is Ben Solo dies right after his redemption. It's like, oh, we're gonna follow the same thing with Darth Vader. Yeah, bro.

Lou 49:39

Oh, he redeemed himself. I'll I'm dead. Yeah. Come on. Right? Because you took it took too much energy for me to be good. You know what I mean? And I just fucking which is different from Darth Vader's death.

Tom 49:48

Darth Vader dies because you know he was saving Luke. And and not only that, because his his Sue was purposely made not impervious to Sith lightning. Yeah, of course. So you know, so powerful.

Lou 50:02

Because he didn't even know it. Yeah, I don't even think Anakin knew it. You know, Darth Vader knew that you know he wasn't gonna be able to stop the fucking, you know, and getting fried.

Keny 50:10

I remember watching a video online where this shows I think we talked about this once before, where Anakin has his suit off and he's working on it.

Lou 50:19

Yeah.

Keny 50:20

And Palpatine walks in. Walks in and sees him and is giving him shit for because he's like updating things and changing it and making it better so he's more comfortable. But he wanted him to be in pain and uncomfortable so he could control. Right. We talked about that too, where they made the suit uncomfortable for him. Well, bearable but uncomfortable.

Tom 50:42

Right. And and Ray Skywalker, you know, that that's the thing that like she just names herself Skywalker. It's kind of weird.

Lou 50:49

Yeah, right. Because she's not even that fucking bloodline.

Tom 50:52

Like it's like, uh, actually, you're technically a palpatine.

Lou 50:55

Right, exactly.

Keny 50:56

So you did palpitine, but now you changed it.

SPEAKER_03 50:58

You made it to something that's but she's not gonna be able to if they're saying that they try to bring them back. The problem is it was it it divided too many people, yeah.

Lou 51:07

And that too.

Keny 51:08

They should have thought that one out because that was really not cool though. No. So whatever. But then people like that that she I don't know. But how was she his but if she adopted it? I understand that. Yeah, that's fine.

Lou 51:17

Refresh my memory. How is it that she's a palpatine? Impregnator somehow.

Keny 51:21

Yeah, like like it's like um Immacula Conception, like they did uh Jay S had the uh the the you know the uh the power to like making impregnant somehow without having to be in there.

Lou 51:34

I have sex with my shadow. That's great. That's fucking great. Uh shadow bangs you while you were sleeping yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, my kid. Yeah, that's fucking insane.

Tom 51:44

No, because I didn't even know.

Keny 51:45

I didn't understand that part either.

Lou 51:46

Yeah.

Tom 51:47

You know, the the so like the Palpatine return thing, uh, the concept, it makes sense because they did the whole cloning thing, but again, it's just poorly executed. And it's just they made it so quick and easy. You know, it's like, oh, somehow Palpatine has returned, and it's like they show as as you know, as the part where they show uh Kylo Wren, you know, going through Exigol and then he's walking through all the seeing all these things. They do that purposely to explain it, but they really don't explain it. The whole cloning thing. You know what I mean? Right. So I think that was just another poor execution. So and and you know, again, uh secretly gathering resources to Exigol. It just it just doesn't I don't know.

Keny 52:28

Yeah. Well, I think we're all in agreement. Yeah, well, this movie series wasn't that great except for the first one. I thought the first one had did they did a good job, and then from there they just dropped the ball on every aspect except for the visual and the special effects.

Tom 52:43

I think they're entertaining to watch, but but story-wise, not so great. Right, right. Definitely entertaining to watch, right? Right, definitely. So fun, they're fun movies to watch.

Lou 52:53

So Ray is the granddaughter, is Palpatine's granddaughter. She's related through a traditional family, but rather through a failed clone. So the father's origin, The Than, Ray's father was a bioengineered strand cast clone created from Palpatine's genetic material on the hidden world of Exegol. Right. A failed experiment because the Than lacked any connection to the force. Palpatine considered him a useless failure and let him escape, hoping the bloodline might naturally produce a stronger offspring later. So that's what it was. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. So we're at uh Yeah.

Keny 53:32

All right, yeah.

Tom 53:32

You got one more? But um one of the things I did love is is in the movie was definitely the cinematics. Uh I love how they did certain things that they never saw Star Wars before. Like in the first movie, um in well, I mean first movie in the first trilogy, The Force Awakens, is like right out of the gate, like you see Kylo Red, and he actually stops a blaster. Right. And just freezes that shit. Yes. That was fucking cool. Yeah. I love that. That's one of the things I loved. Yep. You know, just showing the how the power of like the dark side or the force itself, you could stop a blaster.

Lou 54:04

Yeah. And that's the whole thing, bro. If they would have built on that kind of thing.

Keny 54:10

They had they had sparks in certain areas where they just want things to be like, oh, ooh, oh, ooh, and then it was like, oh, yeah. Yeah. But listen, maybe they will do it again some point in our lives where they'll just do it over. Yeah. In some fashion, whether it's animation or who knows. Yeah, they got it because it'll be interesting to find out.

Lou 54:31

Yeah, this is you know, I said it would be cool to watch, but yeah.

Tom 54:35

So but so I think um we're gonna see in time if the sequels can be redeemed through additional footage. And I think, again, as I mentioned before, the prequels, you know, we we uh weren't well received like they are now. Right. So could that happen with the sequels?

Keny 54:56

I like no I say TBD. Not gonna happen.

Tom 54:59

Yeah, TBD to be determined.

Keny 55:01

You know what? It will be, and it'll be people who don't know the story of Star Wars and they'll have it all wrong. Right, yeah. And then and they'll be hooked onto that, and they're and then we'll have to educate them, go, no, you're wrong, you don't know what you're bucking talk. Right, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

And then uh so they saw Oh, because Disney Plus, you could watch every Star Wars. Yeah, in order.

Lou 55:19

I don't know.

Keny 55:20

I don't you're talking in the future, right?

Lou 55:22

Yeah, we're talking in ten years, how many of the kids are gonna be watching? No, well, ten years, five, ten years. Ten years, five, ten years, especially when newer stuff comes out. Right, that then they're gonna have to go back to watch the older stuff. But it has to be good shit. It can't be shitty shit. It's gotta be good shit.

Tom 55:38

Apparently the from what I read is that Ray is going to rebuild the Jedi Order. Right. And I mean, the cool part is is is the fact that like the thing with forced ghosts is the first person to figure out the forced ghost thing was really um Qui-Gon. So there wasn't like there was no forced ghosts hanging around at the um the Jedi um council in in in the prequel era. This was like a newer thing. Right. So now it was Obi-Wan or training them, wasn't it? They can rebuild the Jedi Order, right? Right. They can rebuild the Jedi Order with these ancient Jedi like Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda.

Lou 56:19

Right, yeah.

Tom 56:21

That would be interesting to see. So I think that is kind of something I do look forward to is kind of seeing all these forced ghosts

Rey’s Future And Final Takeaways

Tom 56:30

like helping Ray rebuild the Jedi Order. Gotcha. But hopefully, when she rebuilds the Jedi Order, she doesn't get into the whole dogmatic bullshit. There you go. That's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_03 56:43

And you know, that'll be so hard to find. Don't do that.

Keny 56:46

Yeah, right, right, right. No, I think she's gonna go down the middle. I think she's gonna do I think if she seemed like that, that's the way she would do it.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

Don't touch me.

Keny 56:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom 56:56

You know, like, you know, I mean I think I think maybe it's like, oh, you know what? You're a Jedi, you can have a family, but you know, no understand how to separate attachment from fear. Right.

Keny 57:09

When you're on Jedi duty, that's what all you're doing. Yeah. Period. Under discussion. Right.

Lou 57:14

It's not for 10 years at a time. It's you know, you come and do your eight hours and you know, it's like being a cop. You know, that's it.

Keny 57:21

Like being a cop. But they would have something to look forward to to go home.

Lou 57:24

Well, yeah, right, right. They would still have their family, yeah. No doubt.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

Just don't let like fear of of you know Yeah, of that loss.

Tom 57:32

Yeah. Just no. Right. But because it's funny because uh before we break away, is uh in the prequels, um Caddy, uh, forget what his name was. He's the one with the big head. He um he was uh in the Jedi Council Mundi, Mundi, I think his last name was. He was um he's the one who had the really like cone head on the room. Right, I know what you're talking about. He was he his species was like dying off species from wherever they were. So they let him have a family, but he was like completely deattached. Where he like like they like he found out his family got killed and he was like, oh, like totally like emotionally detached himself so much when like something happened with his family and he died and he like didn't even care. Yeah, right. That's kind of weird.

Lou 58:18

All right, next new wife. Yeah. All right, so with that, thank y'all for listening. Watch, subscribe, like, follow.

Keny 58:28

Wherever you find your podcast, all over the ladies and gentlemen. Yes.

Lou 58:31

Love, feet, and hair grease, live long and prosper. And may the force be with you.

Keny 58:37

Hello.