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Did V'Ger Create the Borg? | Star Trek: The Motion Picture Rewatch
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Star Trek: The Motion Picture introduced V'Ger, one of the franchise’s most powerful machine intelligences—but could V'Ger be connected to the creation of the Borg?
CC & NJ Guy begins its Star Trek movie rewatch with the original crew’s first big-screen adventure. Lou, the resident Star Trek expert, leads Tom and Keny through Captain Kirk’s return to the Enterprise, Spock’s struggle between logic and emotion, Dr. McCoy’s hilariously grumpy comeback, and the enormous artificial intelligence traveling directly toward Earth.
In this episode:
• The mystery behind V'Ger and the Voyager 6 probe
• Ilia’s transformation into a machine duplicate
• Decker’s decision to merge with V'Ger
• The possible connection between V'Ger and the Borg
• The similarities between V'Ger and Nomad
• Why Kirk had to defeat the threat through intelligence instead of combat
• How Star Wars influenced big-budget science-fiction movies
• Why Star Trek: The Motion Picture initially divided audiences
• The chemistry between Kirk, Spock, and Bones
• Klingons, Tribbles, replicators, and alternate Star Trek timelines
Decker’s merger with V'Ger creates an entirely new form of life—but could that life-form have eventually evolved into the Borg?
The V'Ger-Borg connection is a popular Star Trek fan theory, not established canon. Still, the similarities raise fascinating questions. Both V'Ger and the Borg pursue knowledge, technological perfection, and the fusion of organic life with machines.
The conversation also connects V'Ger to Nomad from the original Star Trek series. Both began as human-made space probes, disappeared into deep space, returned with unimaginable power, misunderstood their original programming, and forced Kirk to solve the threat through intelligence rather than combat.
Is Star Trek: The Motion Picture an underrated science-fiction classic—or is it still too slow for modern audiences? More importantly, do you believe V'Ger could be connected to the origin of the Borg?
Follow CC & NJ Guy on your favorite podcast app and join us as we continue through the original Star Trek movies.
Next stop: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
CC & NJ Guy is a conversational podcast covering pop culture, movies, paranormal topics, real talk, and far-out theories.
Hosted by: Cottman, Crawford & The Jersey Guy
Contact us: CCandNJGuy@gmail.com
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Why Start With Star Trek
KenyThese are the Voyagers, the Starship Enterprise. It's a five-year mission to explore strange worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man or no one has gone before. Live from Professor Studios!
LouWhat was good? Yes. So let's start now.
TomSo we did Star Wars and now we are embarking into Star Trek.
KenyYes. The motion picture.
LouFor our well, it's not going to be a five-year period, but it could be. Oh yeah, it probably could be. Hell yeah. There's so many.
KenyWell, we're only going to go to I think we were going to go all the way up to Undiscovered Country.
LouThat was the first one. Well, you gotta tell it, you gotta walk us through the order.
KenySo the first one we're gonna do that we're gonna go on is it's gonna be Star Trek The Motion Picture. Right. Right? Yes. And I want to tie, I try to tie something from an the original series to because sometimes stories come from the original series and they became movies. Right. Movie or the TV shows. From the TV show, which made it a movie.
LouRight, but then the newer TV shows that any of the original come to those?
KenyNo, we're only dealing with just the the original series. Okay.
TomDamn it, Jim. I'm a doctor, not a podcast host. That's funny.
KenySo we're just doing from the original series, and I'm gonna only tie from the original series to the first six that came out. Gotcha. So it's Star Trek Motion Picture, Wrath of Khan, in Search of Spock, The Voyage Home. What's the last? Well, there's five is Isn't that the Sade the Wheels one? Nope. That's four. But six is Undiscovered Country.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Okay.
KenyWhich one's a Wrath of Khan? Second one. Second one, yeah. By two. Yes. So The Final Frontier was the number five. The five. Okay. Right. That's the one where he they think that we don't want to get into that series yet, but that's an interesting because Spock's brother is in that movie. Oh, okay. Right? So that's a good one.
Kirk Retakes Command For The Threat
KenyAll right. So in this movie, Star Trek the motion picture, right? Right. Kirk gets gets himself back into Starfleet. He finds out about this probe or this thing that's coming towards Earth. Mm-hmm. And it's just disintegrating things or turning them into like electric.
TomI mean, I don't know.
KenyAnnihilating things. It already kicked the uh the Klingon's ass. Stay tried. Three ships. Boom. Gone. Nothing. Nothing. Like nothing. Right. Right. So Kirk winds up enlisting back in or gets back in. And then he takes over a ship.
TomHe takes a step down, too, to get well. Was he Admiral? He was Admiral. He took a step down to be captain just to do this mission. Right. So now he did this mission. Yeah.
KenyAnd there's already captain there, but he gets him pushed out. Yeah, he works down. Now he's captain. He's his assistant on the ship. Like, you know, he's the number one. Second right. No, yeah, right. His number two. Right. He demotes the guy. Right. He demotes him. He takes it away from me. He takes the starship away. And they have this argument because they know each other. Right. And he pretty much tells him in the movie, but you haven't been on a starship for so long. You don't even know how this one works. There's two different technologies and things like that. Which is true. Right. And that's why he keeps him up to help him with that. Right. And then they wind up running into this so-called probe or entity. They don't know what it is yet. Right. Right. So when they finally make contact with it. Did you watch the movie? Did you watch it? When they finally make contact with it, it stuck shit starts happening. They don't do any type of aggression to piss it off. Right. They just take whatever that's coming at them and not respond the way everybody else had them. Right. Which is probably what saved their ass. Right. So now they wind up, I I kind of skipped ahead. So we're right there so that they're already in the mess. But let's go back a few minutes. Because Bones comes into
Bones Returns And Transporter Horror
Kenythe picture. So sp Kirk gets in, then he somehow gets Dr. McCoy back in. Right. Some kind of, there's some kind of something in the bylaw or whatever that can get him reactivated or whatever. And he gets pissed off. He gets my shit back in here. He's like, who the hell? Who the hell was the woman? And then he sees him. Of course. He's like, some bylaw that got me back in here. He's like, Bones, I need you. There's a thing out there. Why does there always have to be a thing? Yeah. That's what he says to him, right?
TomThe only thing about Bones is he's very emotional. He's he's the opposite of what Spock is. But he's reliable as fuck. Right. But he is a grumpy. You know what? You know what I love about Bones? Is because there's always that one guy at the workplace who's been around for a while and just is a grumpy. He has all these crazy sins. He's griping about everything. There's always that guy at work. So I think he's like a relatable guy. Because there's always that one guy at work who's just griping and complaining about everything. And he's that guy. That's funny.
KenyAnd so, of course, they wind up Bones winds up, of course, giving in, you know, they're friends forever. You know what I mean? Bones' got a beard. He's wearing like this kind of hippie outfit. You know, it's like he was out in a club somewhere. Yeah. And somebody fucking activated his service, you know, took him out of retirement. Like, no. Sorry, but you gotta come back now.
TomYou know what's the messed up part in that movie? They show what happens if someone doesn't get beamed up right.
KenyOh, yeah, yeah. They all got like a transporter was malfunctioning. Like it kind of melts somebody.
TomYeah. Sounds good. I remember that part. Because I think that was a thing that people probably were asking, like, what would happen if it doesn't go right? Like they got. Yeah. They give they give
Spock’s Vulcan Quest Gets Interrupted
Tomit a big thing.
KenyBut then Mr. Spock shows up. Right. But he doesn't show up like beamed up to the ship. There's a vessel that approaches the ship. Right. And it's got a certain clarification where it's it can go to certain places. You know, and you know, he wants to board with us, blah, blah, blah. They don't know who it is. It's like some kind of crazy ship. Right. And it's Spock. Now remember, now Spock was back on Vulcan. Right. Okay. And he was doing the uh some like ceremonial type shit.
TomRight.
KenyWhere he purge all emotion. Got it. Okay. Right. And he was there. And he, when he was doing that, I'm gonna look up the name for it because there's a name for it. He somehow was able to tap in or receive what was coming from that probe. Okay. And because of that, it kind of bounced him out of what he was doing. Like it like he just heard this thing. Yeah. And then next thing you know, he's like, alright, I'm out. I gotta go figure out what the hell's going on with this thing. Like somehow it contacted him or he was able to communicate. So then that's why he comes to the ship. And then he winds up, of course, fixing the transporter when he's there. He winds up fixing it. So now they're all trying to figure out. Now, of course, Spock has been gone for a while, and you know, they're trying to talk to him, and he's just being so cold, serious and being a Vulcan, you know. And of course, Kirk being who he is, and they're friends anyway, he's like, you know, he's trying to tell Spock, I think he's remembering the movie, sit. Yeah. Spock, sit. They're like, okay, I get it. You know, but they wind up obviously coming together, and there's also a woman
Ilia Becomes Vger’s Messenger
Kenyon the ship. What rank was she again? The bald woman that was on the ship. Now she's part of the main character. She's a new, right? Yeah. So she winds up becoming the object of the probe. They turn her into like an android. Okay. Yeah. They take over. And they're she's speaking for them. Okay, I got you. All right.
LouBut she's no longer a human being, she's a machine now. No kidding. Yeah. So just as they took her over, or was it?
KenyYeah, she's totally even though there's some left, you find that out later, or you do see there are certain moments where she has a certain memory or something pops back. Was she already a uh a robot? No. She was just a certain type of uh what you call um. I forgot which uh planet she came from, but spe you know, someone else from another planet or star system. Okay. But these two, she knew Riker that was in the movie. Right. The one who Kirk took away his post and made him his sideman now. Right, right, gotcha, gotcha. Um, they had a history together. So they wound up, you know, bumping into each other. And when they do that with her, they she's the communicator for the probe. Right. And the name of the probe is Vija. Right. That's the name of the probe. Yep. And they're trying to figure out what this Vija means. Who's Vija? Right. Right. So as the movie's going on, Spock winds up going out. And when he gets the spacesuit, right? Well, she which I won't go ahead. But what she gets you find out her strength and stuff in the movie, she walks through shit. Right. Like they try to lock her out of a room or put her in a uh a confined area and she walked right through the wall.
TomYeah, like she was super robot. Do you want to know uh fun fact about that movie that it looked up?
How Star Wars Changed Sci Fi
KenyYes, please, because it'll help me look up some stuff.
TomThat that movie was actually supposed to be, they were gonna do a like a another series. They were gonna do like an updated series. And because because of I and I'm not trying to take away from it, because of Star Wars, because they that that they realized that like you can do a big budget sci-fi movie, because before that, sci-fi was never taken seriously. I apologize. Sci-fi was never taken seriously in the in the motion picture movies. You know, for TV shows, yes, but like you know, they were always like if you look at at sci-fi movies prior to Star Wars, yeah, that they were never big budget. Right. So they actually realized that they could do big budget. So like, all right, let's do Star Trek big budget. And then that's how Star Trek The Motion Picture came out, and they decided they were gonna can't they were not gonna they were gonna next the series and just do a movie instead. Right. They were gonna do another series with the stock. And and also they did it because Star Wars came out. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's why they did it, because they were gonna do another series, and because the Star Wars came out, there was proof of concept that they could do a big budget movie.
KenySo now the first one didn't do well. Right. But it's actually people like it better now than they did when it first came out. Yeah, it took time. It's like one of those movies that took a little while before you know.
LouStar Wars was like, you know, and borderline for that too for a while. You know, it did good in the movies, and then it kind of died out and came back. The second one came out, people went. Yeah, I'm saying like they the the thought, the feeling of it was like hey, and then they saw it, and then people like, okay, then it made that comeback because we had spoken on that before.
KenyYeah, yeah. So, well, go ahead. So this is like a giant energy cloud, is really what it is. But there's a shift definitely inside there. You know, the cloud is revealed, of course, as Vija, and she speaks for them. Right. Like they communicate through her. She's got crazy strength. So going through certain things, at some point, Spock winds up going out, takes a spacesuit, and goes out and shoots himself all the way inside and does like a mind meld with this with the entity. Surprised it didn't zap him. It did, fucked them all up. Remember? Because Kirk saw that he did that. Why did he look for it? No, he just was super energy that he was and uh Kirk. Kirk gets a suit, he goes out looking for him, he's like, oh shit, he went out, let me go. So as he's going, he sees him tumbling towards him and he winds up grabbing him. And then they get him back in, and of course they have him in sick bay, right? Right. Bones is giving him shit. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's bones. But he what's good about Bones, though, is that he's that that one that one person you need to have in that argument to kind of like break it up a little bit what's not too. It's like another third, you know, the one that's serious about it and everything, you know? Yeah.
LouSo anyway. He's the he's the voice of reason, right? Or what's supposed to be reason. Even though it's grumpy as fun. Yeah, super grumpy. That's what makes it so fucking funny, bro. But it's super emotional too at the same time. Like it's all about humanity. Right, right, right, right. But it doesn't matter. Do it on my terms. You know, that kind of shit. Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah. And that's funny because every time they redid a movie or TV show that it was, you know, of Kurt and his crew, they make Bones the same guy. Right.
KenyWell, even when they right when they even right, when they came out even with the newer ones. Yeah, the guy the the actors played the parts really well.
LouYeah. To where it was similar, you know. He did, yeah, because they had to play bones as Urban. I can't think of his first name. I think it's Carl, something like that. Urban. He was in the boys. He's the dude from Boys. Right. And uh he did that. He played Bones, yeah.
KenyHe played Bones, but he played some good, and that Lennon Nimoy was actually quoted as saying that he got emotional when he saw him doing that part. Really? Because it reminded him so much. Really. The Forrest Kelly, I believe his name was, who played McCoy and his friend, and he said that he was emotional it made him emotional. That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he did it so well, you know, like it's just like wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome.
LouCan you imagine that? That's awesome. That's good shit. I liked I liked the TV shows, but go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, so no, no, this is good because we want the podcast less.
KenyWell, I'm just saying, no, no, I'm saying go ahead, because then you said that you're gonna tell us when it leads how what episode So we'll go into that now, and then I'll go
Nomad Parallels And AI Themes
Kenyback. But let's remember what I was saying about Spoxin in Sigbay, sorry.
LouRight. In Sig Bay. All right. So now I remember, it sounds familiar, about an episode. It was an episode that there was that big energy ball thing in the street.
KenyNo, no, it wasn't that one. Uh this one, similarities between Nomad. Remember Nomad and Vija. Yes. Nomad was like a little ro, it was a floating robot and had like a little bit Ryan, yes, right?
LouYes, yes, yes. Right.
KenyThat was similar type of story. All right. Yeah. It's creator, you know. Right. This is the creator. Um you are not like you are weren't as uh you do not you're not smart enough, you're not right, you're a carbon unit, you need to, you know, all that other stuff.
LouThat's the one that they ended up well, I'm not gonna tell you.
KenySo here's the similarity both started on Earth and made probes, Earth made probes. So the probe, even in the original series, was also an Earth-Made probe. Okay. Right? Both disappeared into space, deep space. Both were transformed into vastly super machines of intelligence. So what happened when with the Starship, with the uh with this movie, I'm not gonna say the probe until we get to it, but the probe that we sent out, wound up coming into contact in the motion picture with a with a gal universe that made or helped fix machines and gave them that machine. Sent him back with that vessel. So that whole big thing was made for that one thing to get back, to bring back its information to the creator.
LouThat's craziness, bro.
KenySo that was what the whole point was. So the probe went out, right? Never came back, and it was uh 19, whatever it was. Yeah, like 1905. No, no. I mean not literally, I'm just saying like it was so and then it would came had the assistance of another type of life that fixed and made and built machines and sent it back with that, you know. Gotcha. So the the similarities I thought was really cool. So this has nothing to do with the movie, but both trans both were transformed to vastly superpower machines of intelligence, both returned to Earth searching for the creator. Right. Both misunderstood the original programming, both became incredibly powerful and dangerous. Both forced Kirk to solve the problem intellectually, intellectually, uh, rather than simply through combat. Right. Both explored the relationship between humanity and artificial. So one with the original series, which was really cool, through the whole series, he's debating with this thing. Yeah. And then the thing winds up killing somebody, and and then I think this I think he may even brought him back.
LouBecause they try to fight, because they they try to kill it. They try to shoot it in the original series. Right. They try to shoot it with the phaser and they shot him back and killed it, or whatever, killed the person, and then it was going back and forth, and then that's where But I think it also fixed one of the people on the ship when it killed it, too. I think you're right. If I'm not mistaken. Well, it it fixed somebody. I don't think it was somebody that caught it. Yeah, it did something, yeah. But it was because they were in the sick bay, and I think that that's what it was. But then that's when Kirk that how he beat it was like you said, speaking to it.
KenyRight. He started using what we.
LouYeah. But what do you mean by we? We. Human race.
KenyWe are your creator. You are not.
LouYeah, right. We're the creator. Yeah. And that's what it did. The beep, beep, beep. You are not the creator. You cannot be created.
KenyAnd then the thing was ready to blow up. Yeah. So they had to take it out and beam it out into space so it wouldn't blow up on the ship. Yeah. And that's what it blew up.
LouYeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
KenyThis movie has a lot of similarities to that, which I kind of find. I wonder if they took that one that seriously. I wonder if they went through them and said, Oh, we could probably do a better story. Yeah. Do another story regarding it could be the same thing that could happen twice. You never know, right?
LouSo in this case, I'm trying to remember. I could have sworn that there was an episode that it had something like V'ger that was.
KenyWell, no, the episode is the Sarsha is the motion picture. But there was no V'ger in any of the things. That's what I'm saying.
LouAnd then I say something like I that's what I just nomad. No, no, I mean I mean like there was like this fear that was going through space in the head.
KenyBut it was just like I feel like I mean, it was something like that, but it was a totally we'll have to look up that episode, but that wasn't the same. Yeah, that had nothing to do with because this is the first one I I thought the same thing, and that's the one it went to was right away. Yeah. Wow. So but that was more of a live being the one you're talking about. It would talk and it would be.
LouYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right. Like bam, um, baby, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
KenyThat's right.
LouSo that way, that way. That baby bite.
The Borg Origin Theory
KenyNow, the interesting thing is I'm gonna share something now, because so there's a theory that's out that says, and we'll find you'll I'll give you the answer later on, that because of what happened with with the Vija, right, the co the the end result of what it did wound up being responsible for creating the Borg. I was gonna ask that.
LouBecause of what it did to the game.
KenyThat's a theory. That supposedly later on in time, as years and years went on, they got so sophisticated to the point where they felt that the collective was what they went to that extreme. Right. They didn't go and stay in the middle of the line and try to do, they went, Yeah, we're gonna go to this side. Yeah, yeah. And we're gonna make everybody into us, and we're gonna assimilate everybody. So that's a that's a theory. I don't know if it's an actual fact, but I I heard about that. It sounds familiar. That sounds like okay, and you'll understand why, because it in the movie explains why what happens, right? You already know, you I think you both already know, right? So after Spock, he's in Sick Bay, right? And they're talking to him, and he's explaining to Jim and Bones and the energy, the issue he was like, I was talking to a child. Right. Like I was like, it it was brand new to the world to the effect where it just had so many questions. Right. Yeah. You know, it was just trying to figure something, you know, like it's lost. Yeah. You know, and then then he started figuring out, okay, and we gotta figure out how to fuck with that now. Because if it's not experience and it's brand new, they can use their experience and be able to do that. You know, at some point they eventually they eventually figure out, you know, that they get it to have a tantrum. You know, because they'll they think they V just starts to threaten them, right? Right. You need to tell us who the creator is. Right. You know, he's like, No, I don't have to share that information. The carbon unit will share. Yeah, you know, and they're like, No. You know, I I don't have to share it. And then it, you know, at some point they finally do, and that's when they go aboard their ship. And I don't want to jump ahead. You know, there's so much other shit that happens on the ship, you know, when they take her, like, she's gone, and then next thing you know, she returns and she's that robot. Right. You know, and they just walk around with her, and at some point, you could see our glimpses because she talks to Decker. Right. He had a relationship with her at some point or knows her from when he visited her planet. Yeah. So he's she's got a little bit still of uh there's still something in there, right? They didn't take all of it away. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's just uh it's funny how you can take the two that's what I wanted to do with the upcoming ones. It's gonna be good because the next one, everybody, is gonna be Wrath of Khan. That's right. That's like the best one out of all of them. Well, yeah, it's not my noble one movie on the top. Really? Yeah. Wrath of Khan? Oh yeah. That shit is off the fucking hook. But we're not gonna get into that now. So, because this definitely goes later on, it goes into that. So it's funny how I w I was like, each one will either have a direct connection or meaning It's the same character they had in the show versus or there's some kind of similar story that was already that they did in the series that would compare to the one they're doing now. Right. And that's why I was like, I think that's an interesting twist because a lot of that did come from the original series. Right.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
KenyAnd it was good. I love watching the original series. The original series was uh even if you saw them so many times you didn't care. You you sit through, you know, the same music all the time.
LouYeah. They were good stories. They were super good stories. Yeah, and the fighting. The fighting. The fighting. Yeah.
TomYou know, I can't think of uh Ace Ventura with that. I know that's a oh no, it wasn't Ace Ventura, it was uh cable guy. Cable Guy, cable guy. When he said medieval times. Dude, yeah, that is right, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The funny thing is, Lou and I have a history with that because I don't know why we used to work together. I used to do that all the time.
KenyBecause we were talking about the movies and Jim Carrey and everything, and how funny it was when he would do that stuff, you know what I mean?
LouThat is too freaking funny. I I I mean, I don't remember the original movie. Some things I do. It's like just bits and pieces, and of like episodes that I remember. Right. You know, but you guys telling now, talking about the movie, it's like, oh shit, maybe that wasn't it. That wasn't that. No, that was enough.
KenyI know the episode you're talking about. Yeah. Um but that one was powerful, but wasn't as powerful as this. Gotcha. Because the size of the ship that they sent to send back to Earth for this thing to finish its its mission is, you know, you know, this was his what he was designed to do. Get information and send it back to the creator.
LouAnd it's funny because that's almost not getting the information, but using that big planetary entity kind of thing, you know, that you shoot at it and it's killing whatever is in front of it, was uh Corbin!
SPEAKER_01Corbin, baby.
LouCome on. Bruce Willis, Chris Tucker. Oh, you're talking about Fifth Element. Fifth Element. Which is one of my favorite movies. I love that. So that it was like it was like, you know, they had that big thing that came up, and I'm just you know, for me, you saying that too, if that's like they took the story kind of thing and right.
KenyIt was like a plasma type weapon that would just wipe you out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's just you know, because they did it with the Klingons. Yeah. You know?
The Chris Pine Movies Verdict
LouNow, I know you said we're gonna go to the movies, but just a quickie question. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Because you're the Star Trek guy, get a super Star Trek guy, we're a little bit of Star Trek guy.
KenyOh no, I'm not even close to what other people know. I mean, I'm sure if people listen to this and they're super, please correct me.
LouHow much of the newer ones are are with Chris Pine and everything? Yeah, with Chris Pine and whatnot, all of those. How I'm talking the movies, not the TV shows, just the movies. Right. How much do you feel did it bring you back? Was there something for you that was like, yes, I remember like he seemed the same way.
KenyWell, the good thing was too is that they kept all the mannerisms and all the funny things that Bones did, Kirk was, and how Spock, you know, and but the timeline was different, right? Was it though? No, I don't know. I'm asking.
LouYeah, totally different timeline. Um but then that's when the other stuff comes into play. Right, okay.
KenySo because you know, we could talk about that movies later on. But but but they were still good because even though the timeline was different, things were just reversed or in a different order. Right, okay. It still happened, people didn't look the same, but they were the same person, kind of thing. Got you. But there's all kinds of crazy shit going on, you know, like in that one they did a thing with Khan, remember? Right. So he was totally different than the one in the f in the original. Right, yes. Different type of Star Trek, different timeline, you know.
LouSo you don't think that you so you think different timeline, not a not an upgrade version of the game?
KenyNo, I think they did a great job. I love the way they did the ship, I'm sorry. And and I th I I liked them a lot. I wasn't a oh, that's full shit. They didn't do it. No, they did it the way it should have been done. I thought it was great. I loved them. Gotcha. I loved them. Gotcha. Gotcha, gotcha.
Klingons And Tribbles Explained
TomThe interesting thing about the Klingons and the movies, they look totally different from the series. Right. And didn't get it. And there was an explanation for it. They somehow the tribles mutated. That's mutated. Right. Yes. And something happened. And I remember watching it, there was an episode where the tribles were in the next generation. And who was the who was the Wharf. Wharf, yeah. And one of them goes near Wharf and the Triple like turns into like some fucking weird monster in front of him. Right. And it's like, oh, they they altered our DNA or something like that. I forget what he said. Maybe correct me if I'm not a Star Trek fan, so I might botch where they got on the ship.
KenyYep. The triple and it's just they multiplied.
TomYeah, that was that was a very famous, probably one of the most famous.
KenyScotty, when they finally got done with whatever they took care of on the ship, they uh he beamed all the tribles to the Klingons on their ship. Right. And they got it from us, so we I mean, I should say, you know, for from uh the humans. Yeah. And uh that's what probably wound up being around.
TomThey're an ultra dirty and a he got the weird mark things on his skull and all that.
KenyAnd look at the series, they had the crazy mustache, but they were dark complexion, and you know, they you know I mean the crazy uniforms. Right, you know, yeah. But the the Klingons, yeah.
LouThe Trevels did that shit.
KenyBut it's funny that Scotty got rid of it because they uh the joke was they thought at first the way he s they said it was like, you didn't kill them, did you? But you shoot him into space, did you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
KenyIt's like, no, no, no, I just I I beamed them onto the Klinghun's ship.
LouOh my god. And it's bad because they couldn't get rid of them. So, you know, it's like you know, beamed them over there and get the flag out.
KenyYeah. Yeah. No, that was a cool episode too. Yeah. Walk. Because they, you know the the the episodes were good because there were some that were corny, that didn't make any sense. But they were still good though. Because it was there was Star Trek.
LouI think though too, bro, for me, as far as like I said, I like Star Trek, I like the newer ones better, you know, the the TV shows, the movies. I don't I I watched, I want to say all of the the original movies, but bro, it's been 80s that that shit all came out, early 90s, and I don't remember all of them. Right. You know, I will start to do a rewatch for some.
KenyI would say as next next generation, I would have to definitely review myself on those because that's a totally I watched those. I was a big fan of Next Generation, but not like I was with the original Star Trek. I still watched it, but I don't think I was like it didn't stick with me like the other ones because we saw them so many times, they were reruns on all the floor.
TomSo I looked it up. So Klingons hate tribles and the tribles hate Klingong. Okay. Around humans, triples make a soothing little purring noise. Yes, you put one near a Klingong and it starts screeching and freaking the fuck out. That winds up becoming incredibly important. Someone had poisoned the Federation's grain supply. They eventually realized that one of the supposedly human officials working at the station is actually a Klingong agent surgically altered to look human. And guess who exposes them? The Tribbles. They purr around everyone else and completely lose their shit when they're brought near, right? That's right. That's how they figure it out. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, so I'm trying to get to that. That's it. So later crooked, uh That's right.
LouThat is funny. That is right.
SPEAKER_01Wait.
LouYeah, because see, I didn't see the I didn't I I I don't remember the episode a hundred percent. But I know I saw it a few a fucking bunch of times. Seen it a whole shitload of times. You say the the the uh repeats. Holy free holy.
KenyWe saw how many times have we seen uh The Odd Couple, the honeymoon, Twilight Zones? Yeah, the marathon. You found it all the time, man. All the time, right? Hell yeah. The Twilight Zones.
TomYeah, it says eventually through originally the bunch of uh limitations, but uh Deep Space Nine is actually a mystery. Trials and triple actions, hang on, it's what the hell happened.
LouYeah. Yeah, listen, bro.
TomYou guys talk, I'll I'll I'll I'll read this real quick.
LouUh um so I said the first one I didn't see, but go ahead, go ahead, finish. Oh, do you mean the motion picture? The motion picture. Yeah, I had to. You never saw that? I no, no, I saw it way back when. Yeah, but you would have to see it. And I saw it like, you know, when we had to like move the antenna on the roof to get HBO when I saw it like, you know, two or three times after that. Because I saw it a few times, but again, this is Yeah, it was I think it was the late 70s. Yeah, early 80s or 80s. So, like I said, I and I hadn't really sat and watched it since you know that. And here we are in 2026. I'm like, I know some of it. I know some of them. But now, what other episode was was there another episode that you found related to the movie?
KenyCause you said you were looking at movies, just just that this only this episode.
LouOkay.
KenyThere's the only one.
LouOkay.
KenyBut when I do the next ones, everyone will have one episode that would be.
LouOh, yeah. So it's only that's what I'm saying. So like as you're doing it, 'cause I thought it was like maybe this one had maybe a couple of episodes.
KenyNo, it was just that one. It was just that one because Nomad did basically the same thing. It was a probe from Earth. It was doing what it was programmed to do, but it literally took the program literally, you know, to the creator. Yeah. Meaning, you know, now they're looking for him, and then they don't believe that we the human race are the creator. Right. So they have to, you know, treat it as such, you know.
TomAnd they never they never said, guys. It's funny, it's like it, it's like they they try they in order they they kept it kind of secretive because so in Deep Space Nine, they ask like how what happened, and and Worf just says we we do not discuss this with outsiders. Without what? About how the triples look at what fault uh affected their appearance. How they you know on the original series it looked different than they do in like the newer stuff. And he it had something to do with the triples, and like Worf says we do not discuss that with outsiders, you know. It's none of your business.
KenyAnd don't mess with the Klingon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mind your bees wax. Yeah, that's funny. I like the original the the movies that did come out. I hope they do one more. The newer ones. Oh yeah, they gotta. It's not that I thought they were better, I just thought they were different, they had their own style to it, but it still was Star Trek, it still had the Star Trek feel, and that's all I gave a shit about.
Star Trek Tech That Came True
KenyYou know what I mean? Well, because still in that genre. And the technology was super cool as hell the way they had it. You know what I mean?
LouLike we said, you know, the the Star Trek is why we have all the shit that we have now. Right. Not why, why, but that's the copy. I get it. Yeah, the IB the ideas come from it. Yeah. Yeah. The phones, because you know, I want the food kit. I know the food, but that's because you do that, you know, you do the vegan stuff. So that would be a good thing.
TomYou know, but it's not just that. I just how awesome would it be to just have whatever the fuck you want. Yeah, I think. Just have you can have Michelin star food. You don't need the button.
LouBut it's gonna be like it's gonna be, you know, a full filament too. Yeah. You know what I mean?
TomIt's it's gonna be just replicated.
LouYeah, yeah. It's gonna well, it's gonna be 3D printed.
TomYeah. That's what it is.
Lou3D printed steak.
KenyThat's many. Whatever you want. Whatever you want to eat. Whatever you want to eat. I don't want to eat steak anyway. And you don't want to eat steak, you said? I don't eat steak anyway.
LouOh, I say you want to chicken.
KenyWell, I just don't, you know. Yeah. Whatever. What you say tofu? I'm like, I'm not eating that. Yeah. Well you won't. But you have to because it's under replicated. But you know what's cool about it? And one of the newer episodes when it was uh what's the new one that just came out? Uh Discovery.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
KenyAnd in that, the uh captain of that ship had chips out, and the visitor was eating them or whatever, and then he's like, Well, that was made out of our shit that was on the ship. Like our food was made from that, like they were able to the poop? Yeah. Poops.
TomHere, have some poop. There's some shitty chips.
LouFrom a shit excrement.
SPEAKER_04You know me with my callback.
LouYo, that's fucking hilarious. Tastes like shit. It is shit, Olston. Yo, that's funny. Nutty.
TomNasty man. It's got the fucking editing.
Handling Vger Like A Child
KenySo Get Max in a movie now. Right, right, right, right. They start to get they start to figure out they need to treat her or Vija as a child. Right, right. In order for them to get their point across. Right. Vija needs to do this, this, and that. They need to get the probes away from Earth. He does that, we'll talk. You don't do it, we're not telling you. And then he tries, you know, the thing tries to shake up the ships, throws these plasma things out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, hey, he knows it's having a tantrum, it's a child having a tantrum. Right. And you just have to stay on your ground because it's brand new. You know, and it's looking for life. It's trying to get as much as it doesn't respect a human being, it wants to be like that. Right. You know what I mean? It's weird.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
KenyAnd that's what winds up usual winds up happening in the movie. So they finally get Vija to pull its probes away, and then they they get in close so they can see actually where the point of margin is of where this is
Voyager 6 Reveal And The Merge
Kenycoming from. Right. Turns out after examination and everything, it's a Voyager probe from Earth. Right. That's what it's not Vija. The reason it said Vija is because by the time it got to where it was going, when they found it, it was so from the state space and decay and everything. It was NASA. The other letters were missing. Right. But when Kirk went over to it, he was scraping the letters away. It was NASA. Voyager.
LouVoyager. Voyager. I thought it was gonna be fucking NASA. Well, it was from NASA. I thought that it was gonna that it was NASA like.
KenyNo, it's the Voyager Pro.
LouThe letters.
KenyRight? So Voyager Pro is going out to seek out to get as much information and return back to the creator. Right? So they see the reason it's not getting the data because they're trying when he's on the ship before they go there, he says, Yor, get me the data on the Voyager 5. I think it's Voyager 5. I'll look it up. Probe. That's a late 19th century, whatever it is, right? So they get the code, they send it, and you see like a shh sh a spark in the freaking inside the panel. And then you see uh they go to fix it, they're like, don't do it, Jim. I think it was done on purpose. Right. Don't don't do it again, you know, don't touch it. It wanted to connect with another human being. So Decker winds up becoming he puts the two together while he's with her and they connect. And it's the first time a new species of one where man and machine were one become a different species. Right. Right? And now hence. Yes, right. And hence the whole thing with the Borg. Right. Right.
TomSomehow, I'm gonna look at Because the Borg isn't till the next generation. Right. It's not later. It's a long time.
KenyIt's a long time. It's a long time.
Canon Vs Fan Theory And Stardates
KenyThe great discussion points during the episode. Both side of Earth on oh we did that already. Might I I have it right here for um what do you call it? The uh the Borg. Here it is. A phone uh okay. Some fans have suggested that the machine civilization that upgraded Voyager 6, six, not five, my mistake, could have had some connection to the Borg introduced in Star Trek, the next generation. There are similarities. Both value the fusion of machine and organic life. Both pursue perfection through technology and evolution. Both possess immense knowledge and advanced technology. However, this is not canon. Neither the movie nor the TV series ever state that the Vija created the Borg or was created by them. So the Star Trek generation or the uh Star Trek universe is not in any way. It's more fan-created, I think. Right. I'm gonna say, yeah. You know?
TomYeah, yeah.
KenyI think it's more fan created, but it does make sense, though. It fits the timeline. It makes fucking sense. Right.
TomBecause no one says where the Borg came from.
LouNo, but yeah, no.
KenyI don't remember what it was. It remains one of the longest running and most popular fan theories in Star Trek. Yeah. It remains one of the longest running and most popular fan theories in Star Trek. Star Trek uh start with uh see.
LouNo, you might be right, Tom. Then they didn't say where it came from, where the Borg came from. Like they didn't, I mean, no, and and when when the Borg was in Star Trek Next Generation, they never said or found out where it came from because then what's her name? Seven. Seven of nine, she came from. Seven of nine. Right. But she never says where Borg came from.
KenyNo, because I th yeah, I don't think I don't think uh the universe bought into that. They didn't tie the two together. Yeah. But it was all fancy. But it was a fan thing for a long, long time. Yeah. Which makes fucking sense. I mean, if you were gonna think of it happening, that would be the part of that and say, you know what, we could actually do something like a prequel to the Borg before the Borg became the Borg and using that.
TomBut think of how many years that a lot of time to evolve and turn into that. Right.
LouThat kind of makes sense. Because of what it was. I mean, and you know, you know what if you don't do it, let me know, because then I'll start looking it up. To have the timeline in years, not in our years, in Star Wars, uh Star Trek years.
KenyYou're talking about the star date?
LouYes. Thank you. That was it. So when the start date, like find the start dates out, like when it was happening, that would be fucking like, oh, so yeah.
KenySo yeah, I could probably look that up on uh whatchamacall? Yeah, yeah, yeah. When the start date was this and then Yeah, because then from Star Trek it was that wouldn't be a bad idea too.
LouSo like we're doing the series on Star Trek to find out the start date uh from the movies and how far off they are, not talking about the episodes, but you know, just like finding out where the episode that you're comparing it to is. That makes sense.
KenyRight, yeah, no. I think it's a good idea to know it started on this star date and this has occurred on this star date. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's fun. I can yeah, that's absolutely a good idea. And I'm gonna, for shits and giggles,
Favorite Series And Rewatch Plans
KenyI'm gonna do it with this one so the next time when we start the next episode, which will be The Wrath of Khan. Right. Which is like the movie.
TomCan you speak Klingon? I know some people can speak Klingon. No shade. Star Trek? Star Trek Trekes can speak Klingon. What do you got? Oh no, I don't speak Klingon. I know some can know like Klingon. No, I'm not that crazy. Like, listen, there are people out there.
KenyI dude. I mean, they just hardcore fans. I mean, but I'm a I'm a I think I'm a a pretty good fan and I know a lot of shit. But you're not like yeah. But I always like learning stuff that I didn't know about. Right. Because at least I could still tie it. I'll be like, if someone explains to me, go, oh, all right. I get it. Because I know from the beginning.
LouYeah. Because see, like I know the TV shows. You know, like the newer ones. You know, like my favorite was Deep Space Nine. I love Deep Space Nine.
TomI like Next Generation.
LouI used to watch Generation.
TomIt was on Channel 9, I think it was.
LouWell, it was Deep Space Nine. I mean, I'm sorry, it was Next Generation and then Deep Space Nine.
TomYeah, I watched Next Generation.
LouBecause that they docked over there. Yeah, I liked it. I liked that a lot. And then, you know, I didn't watch a few of the ones in between. And then now I'm freaking hooked on Strange New Worlds and Yeah, I gotta get on that again.
TomWhat's his name was old when Next Generation was on?
LouPicard, yeah. I thought he was old then. Jean-Luc. Yeah, he was he was old back then.
KenyNo, I think he was in his late 40s, early 50s, I think.
LouEither way, he looked old as fuck because he was good. Yeah, now you're like.
KenyYeah, Picard, yeah. He was good. Picard was awesome. Yeah. It was great.
LouAnd then there is where they too have the timeline jumps and shit like this. It goes back to a certain point, which I love. Right. So it was the it was it was um Picard, Strange New Worlds, and Voyager was it? Yeah, Voyager. The one with the shit. I lost her name because she annoys the fuck out of me, but I loved Fox sister.
TomI loved I loved Next Generation. It was so cool because what's her name was on it? Will be Goldberg was on it. Yes. Yeah, Generation. And you had what's his name from Reading Rainbow?
LouYeah, yeah, Navar Burton. Yeah, Labar Burton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was Geordie, Data. Yeah, I loved those two. You had Data.
TomI I loved that. That was my favorite. But that's because I grew up with that. I think if I was younger, I probably would have grew up with the original series. Yeah, you would have. If I was not younger, I would have been older. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KenyYeah, you would. For us, it was a fun thing because it was like we knew every night. Right. It was a routine. You knew this was on. Yeah. You sat, you watched it. I think it I think it was in this order. I think it was Odd Couple. Oof, I remember the for that. Twilight Zone was hard to do.
LouTwilight Zone at 11 o'clock. Twilight Zone was was like after the news.
KenyRight. Some say so was so was Odd Couple.
unknownRight.
KenyThe rerun. I'm not talking about the one it was.
LouNo, no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
KenyIt was Channel 11. Yep.
TomAnd all that shit was on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
TomBut yeah, just because of my age bracket, I, you know, I never watched like I maybe I caught some reruns of the original series, but like I watched Next Generation pretty much.
LouYeah.
TomI wasn't like I didn't know the time it was on, but every time I I guess it was the time of the day it came on, like the channels it was always on.
LouYeah. Listen, it was a great show. Like I said before. Yeah, they were all good. It's a lot of the technology I feel 100% was based on. Off of Star Trek. You know what I mean?
TomIf you look at the well it does, it comes from the a lot of the flip phones before we went to smartphones looked like the communication.
KenyHe's the guy that who created War Drive on Earth. Right. Remember? Yeah. In the movie with Next Generation. Yeah. Right. He was actually in the original series. No shit. Yes. Don't even remember. Not the guy. I mean the character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a story with him in the original series. I didn't remember that. Yes.
LouI remember the talk to the story.
KenySo that's what I'm saying. That's why I wanted to do it the way I'm doing it. That's what I'm saying. You gotta do timeline. Even next generation, that was in there.
LouYeah, you had to do a timeline to in correlation to uh episodes that you're comparing with.
KenyEspecially with AI show. Oh yeah.
LouOh yeah, yeah.
KenyYou know, you're just giving me ideas now. I'll just figure out you can link all that shit.
LouYeah, that would be so freaking cool. Because uh I said thinking about the episodes and the movies, it feels like the movies were continuation of the same thing. You know what I mean? Like several story, yeah, like several picture that's like when did that happen? Right, right. Well, when did this happen? How did that happen? Right. We know that he retired or whatever. That's what I'm saying. It'd be freaking great to see how many years it was after, like you say, like that last episode of the TV show. Right. That when was it, like how long was it? Was it 10 years, 20 years from the last episode of Star Trek on, you know, when they made the first episode? Right. You know, what it looks like when they had Khan on the TV show to the movie. Totally.
KenyYeah, yeah, yeah.
LouThat's what I'm saying. Was it was it Ricardo also that was on the TV show? That's why they got him. For some reason, bro, I'm thinking that was the dude from Ricardo Mump. Feminine's whole entourage of people. The original fantasy living. No, no, no. I'm trying to tell him who the. Remember? You know who Khan was, the original Khan. Ricardo Motalbang. Who's he? The Twilight, the plane, the plane. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantasy Island. He was the boss, the man, you know, okay of Fantasy Island. He's the one who played the character. He was actually in the original, he played the character in the original series. Of the original one. So that's what I was asking. I didn't remember because I'm in my head, I have Cesar Romero. I don't know why. No, no. And as Caesar Romero was the original Joker from Batman. Yeah, from Batman. From Batman, yeah. Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. It was like, ugh. I can't remember who it was. But yeah, man, all that shit. It's just, yeah, it's it's so cool. So
Wrath Of Khan Next And Goodbye
Louyeah, we're gonna have fun with this shit. I'm gonna watch Rathokhan. Yeah.
KenyLet's all watch it. Yeah, I gotta watch it. You'll love this one the best. Yeah, I think. I know it's a fan favorite. Oh, it's just fantastic. Yeah. It was the bet, you know what? If you don't understand anything, just hang just pause it. Call me up and I'll Yeah, send a message. That's all.
LouI'll catch up to you. I'll let you know what's going on. I'll just say, no, no, this is what Oh, okay, good. Yeah, yeah. Because you know, he said it was the most action. It was like the the the fighting and the series, throwing shit up.
KenyAnd there was a lot of vendetta, like somebody had to get it.
LouYou know, I gotta see it because I say I don't I remember, but don't remember.
TomI saw a funny picture of Caesar Romero, by the way. I don't want to, but it's it's my God, bro.
LouCan you imagine? Yo, yeah, reacher the Joker.
KenySo I could drive a joker. Yeah. So that's hilarious. The next Star Trek one will be The Wrath of Khan, and that will be a fun one. So cool. And I we already have no, we have a tie-in already too. Yeah. All right.
LouYeah, maybe. So that being said, yes. Thank you all for listening, watching, subscribing, watch everything on everything you can find, anything and all of us on podcasts, YouTube, all that good shit. So wherever you find your podcast, we are on it. All right. So you say your thing. Thank you for listening, watching, love, peace, and hair grease. May the force be with you. Live long and prosper.
SPEAKER_01Hello.
